Input sensitivity for the xTreme monos?

Ron S · « **on:** 25 Jun 2003, 03:08 am »

Have been searching and searching, but can't seem to come up with the answer.

What *is* the input sensitivity of the xTreme Monos?

I read a post by mgalusha that detailed the specs of the Stratos (not sure which version, though) on HD, but I believe different terms were used, and I'm not sure if 1.04V is the correct answer for that amp. Would be curious as to the input sensitivity of the xTremes, as I'm trying to narrow down a list of pres that would match it best in terms of numbers, at least.

Anyone know? Klaus?

Thanks!

Ron

mgalusha · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Jun 2003, 03:44 am »

Ron,

I measured both the stereo Stratos and the Xtremes and they have nearly identical gain levels. The Xtremes have a voltage gain of 34 or 30.6db.

With a voltage gain of 34, 1 volt input will produce 34 volts output. 34 volts into an 8 ohm load is 144.5 watts. An input of 1.44 volts would produce an output of about 49 volts. This is 300 watts into an 8 ohm load.

The Xtremes should be capable of 300W into 8R but I have never measured it. If so, the sensitivity would be 1.44 volts for full output. In any case, the Stratos has a fairly high gain and doesn't need a preamp with a lot of gain unless your source is fairly low level.

Input impedance on the Xtremes is 18K ohms, which is the same as the stereo amp.

Hope this helps,

Mike

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Jun 2003, 02:24 pm »

Hello MG, I consider it would be a nice thing if you post all measures you havedone to the Stratos in it's different versions, a kind of "unofficial" specifications, including power consume at stand bya and all that kind of issues that you have previously measured.

Regards

mgalusha · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Jun 2003, 04:50 pm »

Eduardo,

I can do that but with some reservations (see below). I'll have to dig up the data when I get home. I havn't done any power comsumption measurements on the Xtremes but I expect they would be about double the stereo amp since there are two transformers.

I have measured input impedance, gain, power consumption and noise. Not a full set of specs by any means and mostly done just to satisfy my curiousity and to calculate the values needed for a passive high pass filter.

I don't have any way to measure distortion and I'm not going to try and measure power output. I don't want to risk blowing up my amps and driving them into clipping to measure full power puts them at risk. Chances are they would be fine, but I'm unwilling to find out.

Reservations - I don't want replace the specifications that Klaus has published. I count Klaus as a friend and want to keep it that way. Perhaps add the items he doesn't list such as power consumption. The only thing I have measured that does not agree with his site is the input impedance. I believe the Odyssey site lists 10K ohm and I have measured 18K on two different amps.

Mike

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Jun 2003, 05:03 pm »

Yes I understand, well the fact is that since the days at HD forum I was trying to collect all data posted by you, Klaus and others to create a unnoficial but helpful listing of hard to find characteristics.

I remember one about all the circuitry protection in the Stratos, by example, that kind of info can be very interesting for people in places like my country and city where sometimes electric flow is irregular.

Regards...

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Jun 2003, 06:57 pm »

Hey Mike,

You are amazing, hehehehe. Thanks so much for your efforts here. Absolutely cool.

Well, as for the data and specs, I mostly base them myself on what I got from Germany. It's true, however, that we optimized the design quite a bit over the past 2 years, and some of the changes obviously effected the specs as well. 18 k input seems a bit on the high side, however, I'd subscribe to that with the current versions of the amp before I'd go with 10 k, which is a good thing anyway. The biggie here is definitely the fact of the superb output gain of the Stratos. In that regard it's a wet dream.

As for the output power itself on the extremes, all I can say is that we put a 1 ohm dummy load on a mono, pushed it up about 80-90 %, and measured somewhere over 1000 Watts while being completely stabile , flatlining as a matter of fact. It was incredible and also extremely hot, hehehe.

Anyway, Mike, thanks again,

Klaus

Ron S · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Jun 2003, 11:45 pm »

Mike,

Thanks for the input! Seems like the world is my oyster as far as preamps are concerned

Now I only have to *decide* on one

mgalusha · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Jun 2003, 01:19 am »

Quote from: Ron S

Now I only have to *decide* on one

Hehe... so many choices and many of them very good. I have heard the Stratos paired with an AI M3, Odyssey Tempest, Goldpoint passive, Radii, Norh ACA, Transcendent Grounded Grid, Symphonic Line Der Erlectung (sp?) and a little Musical Fidelity X-Pre.

Like everything else in this hobby it comes down to synergy and personal taste. I suggest giving Klaus a call and discussing your system with him. He is very knowlegable about which pieces will compliment each other.

Enjoy the journey.

Mike

Tyson · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Jun 2003, 02:08 am »

If you got the scratch, the Symphonic Line Erleuchtung is the way to go. Nicest pre I've ever heard matched to the Odyssey gear.

Christophe35 · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Jun 2003, 10:06 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha

Quote from: Ron S
Now I only have to *decide* on one

Hehe... so many choices and many of them very good. I have heard the Stratos paired with an AI M3, Odyssey Tempest, Goldpoint passive, Radii, Norh ACA, Transcendent Grounded Grid, Symphonic Line Der Erlectung (sp?) and a little Musical Fidelity X-Pre.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I have mono blocks and a tempest. How would you compare the Erleuchtung with the tempest, used with a stratos ? is the erleuchtung better or just different ? (and in which way)

Thanks for any information,
Christophe

mgalusha · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jun 2003, 02:21 am »

Christophe,

IMO the Erleuchtung was better not just different. I didn't get to listen to them for extended periods but I thought the Erleuchtung provided a cleaner sound. By cleaner I mean less distorted, less altered. There was a "rightness" to the sound. I know that's the an audiophile crap term but that is the effect produced by the Erleuctung. More natural than probably any preamp I've heard.

However, given the price it should be exquisite and I thought it was. If I had the cash for a megabux preamp, this would be at or near the top of the list.

The differences were not really in terms of more/less bass or more/less high end but in increased clarity and detail. Not detail in the sense of bright but in the refinement of sound and the ability to pick out subtle pieces of the music.

HTH,

Mike

Christophe35 · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Jun 2003, 01:54 pm »

Thanks Mike for the information. Should be really interresting if odyssey make a preamp bases on the erleuchtung, like the tempest is based on another Symphonic Line preamp. Klaus, any project like this ?

Christophe

Sonny · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Jun 2007, 03:11 pm »

So, what is the input sensitivity, in terms of volts or millivolts, of the odyssey extreme monos...does anyone know???
Thanks

lazydays · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jun 2007, 10:35 pm »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 25 Jun 2003, 06:57 pm

Hey Mike,

You are amazing, hehehehe. Thanks so much for your efforts here. Absolutely cool.

Well, as for the data and specs, I mostly base them myself on what I got from Germany. It's true, however, that we optimized the design quite a bit over the past 2 years, and some of the changes obviously effected the specs as well. 18 k input seems a bit on the high side, however, I'd subscribe to that with the current versions of the amp before I'd go with 10 k, which is a good thing anyway. The biggie here is definitely the fact of the superb output gain of the Stratos. In that regard it's a wet dream.

As for the output power itself on the extremes, all I can say is that we put a 1 ohm dummy load on a mono, pushed it up about 80-90 %, and measured somewhere over 1000 Watts while being completely stabile , flatlining as a matter of fact. It was incredible and also extremely hot, hehehe.

Anyway, Mike, thanks again,

Klaus

as I said they are somewhat similar to arc welders in a prettier box!
gary

Sonny · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jun 2007, 11:50 pm »

Quote from: lazydays on 20 Jun 2007, 10:35 pm

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 25 Jun 2003, 06:57 pm
Hey Mike,

You are amazing, hehehehe. Thanks so much for your efforts here. Absolutely cool.

Well, as for the data and specs, I mostly base them myself on what I got from Germany. It's true, however, that we optimized the design quite a bit over the past 2 years, and some of the changes obviously effected the specs as well. 18 k input seems a bit on the high side, however, I'd subscribe to that with the current versions of the amp before I'd go with 10 k, which is a good thing anyway. The biggie here is definitely the fact of the superb output gain of the Stratos. In that regard it's a wet dream.

As for the output power itself on the extremes, all I can say is that we put a 1 ohm dummy load on a mono, pushed it up about 80-90 %, and measured somewhere over 1000 Watts while being completely stabile , flatlining as a matter of fact. It was incredible and also extremely hot, hehehe.

Anyway, Mike, thanks again,

Klaus

as I said they are somewhat similar to arc welders in a prettier box!
gary

gary, what I want to know is the input sensitivity, in volts, so that I can see if using the monos on the bass end in a bi-amp configuration will work...i would like to see if the gain is similar to the tube amps that'll be using on the mid/tweeter drivers...

WEEZ · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Jun 2007, 12:03 am »

Sonny,

mgalusha indicated on page (1) that the gain is 30.6db. (approx. 1.4v for full power). Find out what the GAIN is of your tube amps. It's really more accurate than the sensitivity...exact power output is never really exact..

WEEZ

Sonny · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Jun 2007, 12:06 am »

Quote from: WEEZ on 21 Jun 2007, 12:03 am

Sonny,

mgalusha indicated on page (1) that the gain is 30.6db. (approx. 1.4v for full power). Find out what the GAIN is of your tube amps. It's really more accurate than the sensitivity...exact power output is never really exact..

WEEZ

Unfortunately, all the data states this:
SPECIFICATION:

CONTROL FUNCTIONS: Power On/Off
POWER OUTPUT: 78 watt x 2, RMS 1kHz ( Ultra-linear )
TOTAL HARMONIC DISTORTION: less than 1%( 50watt, 1kHz )
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: ( -3dB points at 50 watt ) 6Hz-100kHz
INPUT SENSITIVITY: 700mV
INPUT IMPEDANCE: 100k ohms OUTPUT
IMPEDANCE: 4, 8 ohms. ( User selectable )
SIGNAL/NOISE: 90dB
CONSUMPTION: 90watt x 2
INPUT INTERFACES: 1 group ( RCA )
OVERALL NEGATIVE FEEDBACK: Little
VACUUM TUBE: EL34/6CA7 x 8, 5687x 2, 6922 x4
DIMENSIONS: 420(L) x 185(W) x 330(H) mm
WEIGHT: 30kg x 2

there is no gain indication...

mgalusha · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Jun 2007, 06:25 pm »

Sonny,

The approximate gain can be calculated from the specs you show.

1) Calculate the output voltage at full power = sqrt(watts x ohms), in this case they show 78W at either 4 or 8 ohms. Assuming this is accurate lets use 8R. The result is 24.979V, let's call it 25V.

2) Calculate the voltage gain by dividing the output voltage by the input voltage. In this case they show a sensitivity of 700mV. 25/.7 = 35.7V Of course this assumes the 700mV is the voltage required for full power. This is likely the case.

3) Convert this to dB = 20 x Log10(n) so 20 x Log10(35.7) = 31.05. The amp you listed has about 31dB of gain.

Hope this helps,

Mike

Sonny · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Jun 2007, 06:56 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha on 21 Jun 2007, 06:25 pm

Sonny,

The approximate gain can be calculated from the specs you show.

1) Calculate the output voltage at full power = sqrt(watts x ohms), in this case they show 78W at either 4 or 8 ohms. Assuming this is accurate lets use 8R. The result is 24.979V, let's call it 25V.

2) Calculate the voltage gain by dividing the output voltage by the input voltage. In this case they show a sensitivity of 700mV. 25/.7 = 35.7V Of course this assumes the 700mV is the voltage required for full power. This is likely the case.

3) Convert this to dB = 20 x Log10(n) so 20 x Log10(35.7) = 31.05. The amp you listed has about 31dB of gain.

Hope this helps,

Mike

mike, doest this help???? Oh yes it does...
this means, based on an earlier posts by you that the odyssey extreme mono's gain is 30.6db and my cyber is 31 db, that's a pretty dam close match and thus the bi-amping should be darn good match!
I will try it out and let you guys know how it sounds!!!

Thanks for the help Mike and everyone else!!! what would we do without this forum?

highdfever · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jul 2007, 10:34 am »

Sorry Guy,

So what is the exact INPUT SENSITIVITY and INPUT IMPEDANCE of Stratos? Actually, what are the important specification info that I need to provide to my friend who is going to make a tube preamp for me?

Tks.
And