[mfsoa]

This might be more properly done in a PM, but I thought that others might want to know the answer too.

I know Gregg Straley shows up every now and then around here, maybe he or someone can answer this:

Is there an official bananna version of the speaker cable?
What type are they?

I currently have my amps raised so that I need only 12" for the bass module and 18" for the upper module to biwire my VR4JRs. I want to use banannas on one set and spades on the other to allow easy connection to the single pr of 5-ways on my CIA D-200s.

Is either the spade or bananna considered best for 200hz down? My guess was spade for lows, banannas for highs.

I guess the thing to do is to make both prs 18" so I can swap them easily.

Thanks for any comments?
Ambien...taking........over.......

[gstraley]

Hi Mfsoa,
    Very good questions. First, I do not have a special name for speaker cables with bananas. I offer 3 different sizes of spade lugs, one banana plug and one pin. There is no additional charge for any of the different connectors.
    Next I will give you my opinion based on hours of listening tests and some possible conclusions for what I (we) heard. When I was designing my speaker cables I originally wanted to make them with bananas because of the ease of use. I started out with 3 pairs of speaker cables. One pair had one brand of spade lug on it, another pair had another brand of spade lug on it and the 3rd pair had a spring type banana plug. I made sure that each pair had at least 150 hours of break in on them. I invited some of my audio friends over to help me listen to the differences (if any) that different spade lugs and bananas made. After comparing all 3 cables to each other it was obvious that one of the spade lugs sounded better than the other 2 pairs of speaker cables. That one pair then became the reference pair of speaker cables. I then snipped off the ends of the the other 2 pairs of cables and tried another companies spade lug and banana plug. After a week of break in I invited some of the same audio buddies over for another listening session. The original pair was still the best sounding. The I repeated the same process again with other connectors. What we noticed was that the worst sounding spade lug still sounded better than the best sounding banana. The original one turned out to be the best sounding spade and that is what I still use. I have since tried other spades and I still prefer the same one.
   That said I will say that both my amplifier and my speakers use the Edison Price 5 way binding posts. The Edison Price binding posts are made from non plated copper. Even the clamp down nuts are all copper. I believe that when you use a 5 way binding post that has an all metal ( copper, brass, etc.) "nut" that the signal from the banana plug has to pass through all of that metal. When you attach a spade lug to the EP binding posts you are attaching it just before it goes into the back of your speaker. A shorter path. I did bring a couple of pairs to another friends house that has a completely different system and tried the same listening test and we came to the same conclusion. Spades sound better than bananas through 5 way binding posts. With his system his amplifier has the binding posts where the "nut" is actually made from plastic. But his speakers use a binding post that was made from gold plated brass. I do know that if you have speakers that accept only bananas (like the Magnapans) then the banana plugs sound really good. I have looked at a number of bananas. I have not been able to find one that is made from copper. The softness and brittleness of the metal will not allow it to be springy. Which is what is required for a banana plug. It may be possible that not being made from copper like the spade lugs that I use could cause some of what we heard. From listening tests with 5 way binding posts, RCA male connectors and RCA female chassis mount connectors that (to me) copper sounds better than brass. That being said everyone has their own opinion which may or may not be the same as mine.

Gregg Straley

Reality Cables

[andyr]

I have not been able to find one that is made from copper. The softness and brittleness of the metal will not allow it to be springy. Which is what is required for a banana plug.
Gregg Straley

Reality Cables

Hi Gregg,

There is indeed a "springy" banana plug made of gold-plated copper (although it may in fact be copper with a small amount of some other metal ... beryllium?).

They are made by Multi-Contact (Germany company) and are in the form of, basically, a cylinder with a slot along its length ... so it can compress and so make contact with the socket all the way along its length.  In the MC catalogue, the part no is LS4; RS Components sell the same plug but their part no. is 531-453.

Regards,

Andy

[TIC]

The Multi-Contact bananas look like many of the other BFA type connectors I've seen and used. Nordost Z-plugs are a fine example and other manufacturers also use a similar setup.

The BFA type of banana are easily my favorite type of speaker termination. They give great contact area, they insert tightly and stay very snug without having to ever worry about retightening the post.

I think the Nordost are made of spring bronze, but I could be wrong. They are a very convenient connector and I've never noticed any sonic disabvantage to using them, althoug I've never done a direct comparison to bare wire or spades.

Enjoy,

TIC

[Scotty]

If you check the conductivity of beryllium-copper alloys you will find that it sucks
on rocks. It is only 10 to 20 % as conductive as pure copper.
See table at the bottom of the page at this  link  http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article79.htm
Scotty

[Steve Eddy]

If you check the conductivity of beryllium-copper alloys you will find that it sucks
on rocks. It is only 10 to 20 % as conductive as pure copper.

Yeah, but is that necessarily a problem? You're only using a small piece of it. And the beryllium gives it mechanical properties that you can't get with pure copper, such as its ability to retain its spring tension.

se

[samplesj]

What about Eichmann Bayonet Plugs?

[Steve Eddy]

What about Eichmann Bayonet Plugs?

Ultimately one might ask, why any bananas at all?

Their only utility seems to be that you can quickly connect and disconnect them. So unless one is constantly fidgeting with their system, I don't see any particular usefulness for that.

Nor do I see much usefulness with respect to large binding posts carved out of big chunks of metal and the equally large spades that typically mate with them.

If you want a simple, low mass connection to your speakers, what's wrong with the old screw terminals and some #6 spades?



Or if you want something a little more "contemporary"...



se

[TIC]

I'll bet those original screw terminals were responsible for shorting out lots of amplifiers! Heck, even with the newer binding post you still see lots of post about people shorting the leads together.

Enjoy,

TIC

[Steve Eddy]

I'll bet those original screw terminals were responsible for shorting out lots of amplifiers! Heck, even with the newer binding post you still see lots of post about people shorting the leads together.

Well, those folks should just get themelves a Bose Acoustic Wave system.

se

[Scotty]

While a low mass connection seems to offer some sonic advantages I have had good results with 8 gauge speaker wire and the custom solid copper binding posts on my speakers. Low conductivity metals don't seem to sound very good compared to copper. If your banana plugs only conduct 10% of the electricity
that goes into them this is a rather high amount of insertion loss and I personally find it unacceptable.YMMV  I agree with Gregg on the sonic superiority of copper over brass. I have tried the Nordost bananas and while I like their mechanical qualities ultimately the sonic hit I took convinced me to go in another direction. I now use a bare wire connection into the binding post on my speakers. The post and the wire are treated with Caig ProGold to inhibit corrosion.
Scotty

[ZLS]

1. Vintage Scott Intergrated with old fashioned screw connects.
2. Modern cables with spades.
3. Fat clumsy fingers.
                                       =

Was it supposed to make a sound like that and what is all that smoke?

[Steve Eddy]

While a low mass connection seems to offer some sonic advantages I have had good results with 8 gauge speaker wire and the custom solid copper binding posts on my speakers. Low conductivity metals don't seem to sound very good compared to copper. If your banana plugs only conduct 10% of the electricity
that goes into them this is a rather high amount of insertion loss and I personally find it unacceptable.

Rather high amount of insertion loss? You want to see a high amount of insertion loss? Look at your speakers. That's your real insertion loss.

Anyway, when you say "If your banana plugs only conduct 10% of the electricity that goes into them..." I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

First, only a superconductor conducts 100% of the electricity that goes into them. And copper at room temperature is nowhere near being superconductive.

It's a relative issue. Not only with respect to the conductivities of the two metals, but also as to what that difference contributes to the overall losses.

Let's say that the resistance of a pure copper banana plug is the equivalent of a one inch length of 24 gauge wire. That's about 2 milliohms. All else being equal, into a nominal 8 ohm load, that represents a loss of -0.002dB. If the alloy conductor is 10 times more resistive than the pure copper, you're looking at a loss of -0.02dB.

se

[Steve Eddy]

1. Vintage Scott Intergrated with old fashioned screw connects.
2. Modern cables with spades.
3. Fat clumsy fingers.
                                       =

Was it supposed to make a sound like that and what is all that smoke?

You left one out:

4. Connecting speaker cables while system is on and playing music.

Again, these people should stick to Bose. 

se