[matix]

I have a pair of eAR1001 monoblocks with MIH MH750 speaker cables.  I was told that Class D amps cannot be partnered with speaker cables with network boxes.  The amps will eventually shut down.  I have no doubt that the info to me is genuine concern,  but how long do I have to look for a pair of speaker cables before I blew my amps out?   

[PaulHilgeman]

I can't imagine this to be true.  It really depends on what the networks are doing.  I auditioned my Hypex based Class D amplifiers with Transparent Audio Labs Music Wave Super cables that had networks in them.  I listened for about a week and had no problems.  They actually increased the load impedance at higher frequencies.  I am not sure about ultrasonic frequencies, but at 20Khz, the impedance was higher than a piece of cable with the same length and same DCR.

Any idea what the MIT networks do?

Regards,
Paul Hilgeman

[Soundbitten]

This is interesting because I have MIT cables with the boxes. A few years ago I decided to try out the PS Audio HCA-2 amp . Shortly after hooking it up ( 3 or 4 days ) I happened to turn up the volume a little and the amp just shut down and wouldn't start back up  . Luckily I had a 30 day warranty and was able to return it for a full refund . It never occurred to me that it was the MITs that possibly did this .

[PaulHilgeman]

Interesting, did you contact MIT about it?

I think the Transparent cables use a very simple network, inductor in series, cap/resistor in parallel.

However, I think that the MIT cables use a very complex network.

The thing is, especially if you look at the data on the HCA-2, it has a resonance of some sort at about 50,000Hz.  If the cable impedance is very low at this point, I suppose it could cause problems, especially if the amplifier is picing up some RF noise and amplifying it.

Did you notice that the amp was getting hoter than usual when not playing?

Interesting, thanks for the data point.

[matix]

This is interesting because I have MIT cables with the boxes. A few years ago I decided to try out the PS Audio HCA-2 amp . Shortly after hooking it up ( 3 or 4 days ) I happened to turn up the volume a little and the amp just shut down and wouldn't start back up  . Luckily I had a 30 day warranty and was able to return it for a full refund . It never occurred to me that it was the MITs that possibly did this .

Well, I have mine now for more than a month without problem.  But your experience is freaking me.  My cables will be on sales soon.  This is what I was told...

ICEpower, and almost all the new Class D amps, cannot be used with cables that have a capacitance load. MIT, Transparent etc have a 'network' built in which is nothing by capacitance. According to both B&O ICEpower, prolong usage of these cables with the amp will damage the amp or cause the amp to randomly shut down....

[Soundbitten]

Didn't contact MIT because this is the first I've heard about it . I didn't notice if the amp was getting hotter when it happened . I had bought the unit as a demo online which could have meant that someone else had returned it . Maybe there was an inherent problem with that particular amp .

[Kevin Haskins]

I don't know the details of the MIT cables but most speaker cables are hooked up to some sort of capacitor network.   Its called a crossover. 

In general though I'd stay away from any speaker cable that had some kind of crossover network built into it.   Why?   Simple.... there is no way to design the network to be useful.   What would you possibly do with a general network that would be added to any loudspeaker/amplifier combination?   What possible purpose could it serve that the loudspeaker designer or the amplifier manufacture wouldn't do better?   

When you buy such devices your giving a nod to some Jelly Bean eating, swanker with no engineering background hooking up things inside a shiny black box without having the slightest clue what he is doing.   That and your paying good money to have that swanker screw-up your system.

[Soundbitten]

What possible purpose could it serve that the loudspeaker designer or the amplifier manufacture wouldn't do better?

 


You could say the same thing about modders

[Kevin Haskins]

What possible purpose could it serve that the loudspeaker designer or the amplifier manufacture wouldn't do better?

 


You could say the same thing about modders

There is a difference.    The modder would know all the variables of the given piece of equipment.   A loudspeaker is a reactive load.   Each has a different impedance curve.   The network you hook to it will effect every loudspeaker differently.   That doesn't sound like a recipe for designing good cables.

[PaulHilgeman]

I don't know the details of the MIT cables but most speaker cables are hooked up to some sort of capacitor network.   Its called a crossover.  Wink

Good point, however, most crossover networks do not do anything to the very high frequencies, the cable however can have falling impedance in high frequencies.

Most of these cable network boxes use a zobel network to try to counteract some of the inductive effects of the cable.  The cable will have some loop inducatance that will make the impedance rise as frequency increases.  It will also have some parallel capacitence that will make impedance start to fall again at some point, or simply counteract the inductance.  What can happen with cables that have these network boxes, or things like braided cat5 that can have high capcitence (falling impedance with respect to rising frequency) really freaks out class D amplifiers that can have extremely low output impedance across the board, and then a spike of higher output impedance (lower damping factor) as frequency rises above 20,000Hz.  I have not seen this happen with Class D amplifiers, or with MIT/Transparent cables.  However, I have seen it happen with a low powered Class A/B amplifier and braided Cat5 speaker cables... go figure.  But the only Class D that I have used extensively (played lots of cables and speakers) are the Hypex Modules.

As to the purpose and benefit of these networks.... at least the deisgners at MIT and Transparent feel so bad about charging 5,000 or more for a piece of wire that they will go the extra mile to actually design somthing, instead of just looking for the nicest nylon sheathing, and pretty wood blocks to terminate the ends of their cables with.  As to the value... no comment.

Regards,
Paul Hilgeman

[mr_bill]

My MIT Magnum M2 biwire cables with my Rowland M501 amps work just fine - actually way better then fine or I wouldn't have purchased them!!
Why don't you just ask MIT since that's there business and then you can stop getting second guessed by the AC authorities.
Bill

[mcrespo71]

I don't know the details of the MIT cables but most speaker cables are hooked up to some sort of capacitor network.   Its called a crossover. 

In general though I'd stay away from any speaker cable that had some kind of crossover network built into it.   Why?   Simple.... there is no way to design the network to be useful.   What would you possibly do with a general network that would be added to any loudspeaker/amplifier combination?   What possible purpose could it serve that the loudspeaker designer or the amplifier manufacture wouldn't do better?   

When you buy such devices your giving a nod to some Jelly Bean eating, swanker with no engineering background hooking up things inside a shiny black box without having the slightest clue what he is doing.   That and your paying good money to have that swanker screw-up your system.

If you don't know anything about MIT speaker cables, you sure make some pretty large inferences about who are making them- "Jelly Bean eating, swanker with no engineering background."

[Kevin Haskins]

I don't know the details of the MIT cables but most speaker cables are hooked up to some sort of capacitor network.   Its called a crossover. 

In general though I'd stay away from any speaker cable that had some kind of crossover network built into it.   Why?   Simple.... there is no way to design the network to be useful.   What would you possibly do with a general network that would be added to any loudspeaker/amplifier combination?   What possible purpose could it serve that the loudspeaker designer or the amplifier manufacture wouldn't do better?   

When you buy such devices your giving a nod to some Jelly Bean eating, swanker with no engineering background hooking up things inside a shiny black box without having the slightest clue what he is doing.   That and your paying good money to have that swanker screw-up your system.

Your right... I shouldn't say mean things.

I'll rephrase....  I'm doubtful any engineer could improve upon the loudspeaker design without knowing more about the loudspeaker load.   A zobel... ok but even then I'd let the amplifier designer decide exactly what they need to do to reliably drive the average loudspeaker.   

[kfr01]

I dunno, I kinda liked Kevin's first inference. 

By rule, I make pretty nasty inferences of my own about anyone trying to sell speaker cable that sells for more than $10k.

$21k for an 8 foot pair of cable?  What a joke. 

[boead]

I have a pair of eAR1001 monoblocks with MIH MH750 speaker cables.  I was told that Class D amps cannot be partnered with speaker cables with network boxes.  The amps will eventually shut down.  I have no doubt that the info to me is genuine concern,  but how long do I have to look for a pair of speaker cables before I blew my amps out?   

I have all MIT IC’s and have spoke to them a couple of times. The signal does NOT pass through any type of network. Call MIT and they will explain.
They’ve been around for many years and have quite a fan base. I listened to many different IC’s and wire and the MIT models are always my favorite, I just LOVE the sound of their cables.
My MIT S3’s don’t have the large ‘box’ and don’t sound any different then the ones that do. Mine are ‘installer’ series.
I do know that most (if not all) MIT cables are Litz braids, some all copper and some alloys.

[boead]

I dunno, I kinda liked Kevin's first inference. 

By rule, I make pretty nasty inferences of my own about anyone trying to sell speaker cable that sells for more than $10k.

$21k for an 8 foot pair of cable?  What a joke. 

Who are you talking about? Not MIT. Their Shotgun S-series sell for about $400 to $1100 for double runs (bi-wire) and have a lifetime guarantee. One of my cables ends got damaged; I actually bought it that way. Sounded fine but it was messed up. I called MIT, they said to send it in; I did. And a week of so later they sent it back like new completely for free.

I believe their MSRP is a bit high but they tend to sell at a nice discount like most audio gear.

[obiwan11]

I've used MIT with a Bel Canto eVo2i for 2 years no problems.

[Kevin Haskins]

Rereading my statements I should clarify.   I don't know anything about MIT.   I try to keep statements I make independent of other people or companies.   Sometimes I have difficulty with that rule. 

I don't want to specifically point out MIT because I don't know anything about them.   I do have my doubts about adding non-loudspeaker specific network components to a cable.   That is my main point and I'm sorry about letting my remarks degenerate to the level of personal insults.

[kfr01]

I dunno, I kinda liked Kevin's first inference. 

By rule, I make pretty nasty inferences of my own about anyone trying to sell speaker cable that sells for more than $10k.

$21k for an 8 foot pair of cable?  What a joke. 

Who are you talking about? Not MIT.

Not MIT? 

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/cable.htm

"
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8' MIT Oracle V3.1 Bi-Wire speaker cable. $9,995/pair.
     
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    (Click here for more info.)
8' MIT Oracle V2 Bi-Wire modular speaker cable. $13,450/pair.
     
8' MIT Oracle V1 modular speaker cable. $19,995/pair.
8' MIT Oracle V1 Bi-Wire modular speaker cable. $21,995/pair.
"


s-n-a-k-e  o-i-l               imho, etc.

[crossroadazn]

Can we just answer or discuss the topic without bashing others ? that likes punching below the belt..

Snake oil ?  snake's like