Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

launche · « **Reply #540 on:** 16 Dec 2006, 06:03 pm »

[quote author=PaulFolbrecht
NICK - I did receive my TVC a week or two (!) ago already - thanks! I guess this is inexcusable, but I haven't tried it yet.

It is slated for my 2nd system, and I'm still waiting on long-backordered parts from Welborne for the DRD 45 monoblocks that will be driving the Zu Druids there.

I really need to put it into the main system in place of the Audio Zone PreT1 TVC there now. I think I'll do that tomorrow!

[/quote]

Yes, Paul that really is inexcusable

I would have loved to have had mine 2 weeks ago, you're more patient than I. But I suspect because you already have an idea of what to expect, given the Audio Zone TVC.

I was on my way to dinner when I saw the package and just couldn't help but take a minute to listen to a song or two before heading out.

Plus, we loved to hear how it fairs against the Audio Zone, not to mention how it sounds with those Consonance mono's.
I may be headed in that area in the near future and would love to hear how that combo sounds.

Gaara · « **Reply #541 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 04:06 pm »

Does anyone have the dimensions of the TVC? For whatever reason this totally slipped my mind and I ordered one three weeks ago and am just trying to figure out where it will go on my rack. Thanks.

Jared

rollo · « **Reply #542 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 04:49 pm »

Hey PaulFolbrecht,
I use Pipedreams with the Cyber 211's.Did some tube rolling and replaced the driver tube[5687] with Tungsols and input with Amprex [6DJ8,Global-orange label] abetter combo than the stock tubes supplied[JJ6922,Phillips 5687].Now using Mullard gold pin E188cc in place of the Amprex also with good result.The Mullard is a touch laid back compared to the Amprex.The Promitheus TVC at this time [72HRS-breakin] sounds better with the Amprex.The output tubes are GE 211's
Power cords are Consonance Ella Babies.A real good synergy with these amps.Tried several top notch cords but could not outperform the Ella.
Enough about my shit, after the 60 HR mark[last night] the sound is beginning to open up.Tonality in the upper midrange is still a touch dry but improving day by day.Cymbals are beginning to bloom a little more.Midrange could have some more weight,its not thin just needs more time.Imaging is world class,decay is real good.
I suspect that the minor quibbles I have now will fade away after 200HRS of break in.Havn't met a new piece of equip. that took less time,especially transformers.To date I'm NOT disappointed with the TVC so far so good.Once the breakin period is over I will pit it against the Bent TVC and I'll let you know which is better in my setup.This unit has gone from good out of the box to why did I buy this to this is real nice so far.Typical breakin torture keep you all posted as to its sonic changes.
rollo

launche · « **Reply #543 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 04:51 pm »

Quote from: Gaara on 17 Dec 2006, 04:06 pm

Does anyone have the dimensions of the TVC? For whatever reason this totally slipped my mind and I ordered one three weeks ago and am just trying to figure out where it will go on my rack. Thanks.

Jared

About 10(L)x12(W)x3(H) inches w/o wood footers (1/2 inch)

rollo · « **Reply #544 on:** 18 Dec 2006, 04:12 pm »

Well Guys,
Tonight will have 105HRS @ 8PM EST when I sit down with the review hat on.Made some previous observations in earliar threads which may have been premature.
My first TVC experience was with the Bent kit with a custom Tiger Maple and alum. enclosure.The sound was very impressive in all areas.The builder of this kit bought a promitheus and now uses it instead of the Bent.So, with that in mind [trust his ears] ordered one.
Out of the box it was GOOD with a long way to go.Tonight the critical listening begins and next week it will go against the Bent.Will listen with my Ref. IC's as well as Promitheus silver[100hrs on cable].Should be interesting as it will go against my active pre [Loesch & Wiesner] all tubed unit
I'll post my opinions tomorrow.
rollo

GHM · « **Reply #545 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 12:21 am »

Well my and a friends TVCs finally arrived. The Energizer showed up also in good condition. I've not listened in my system,but did get a chance to listen in his. Very promising so far. Although I'm not as familiar with his system as my own. We also dropped in the Energizer. He'll play it in the system for a few days as the other components burn in and then remove it. I could be wrong but on first listen the images seem to become more defined ..maybe due to a blacker background? Not sure ..I will listen in my own system once I get everything back in order... probably in a week or so.

Oh forgot..Thanks Nick for the Christmas Cards and the Tri-braided Silver 12 gauge power cord.

rollo · « **Reply #546 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:06 pm »

Report as promised.After 105 HRS the unit has improved in many ways but I feel it needs more time.Istill hear traits of break-in-itis in the upper midrange and treble.The imaging however remains world class.Soundstage open and deep with very good height and width which extends past the speakers.Dynamics are good but slightly lacking,could use a touch more punch and slam.
The overall presentation is light and laid back with excellent detail.Although it is musical it is slightly dry in character.Dosn't bloom like my active but its close.Midrange is beginning to open up,at first it was a touch recessed needs more time.THe top is a bit dry and crisp with cymbals.Trumpets didn't have the bite but projected nicely.Bass is tight and well focused but could go a little deeper.
Overall the sound is very good,I must stress that my quibbles are slight.It's a matter of omission at this time.The only real issue I have is the pace and timing is a bit slow and the overall presentation lacking in weight.
In my opinion I don't think 100HRS is enough time as the sound was still changing at the 110HR mark and for the good.So in all fairness to the TVC I'll put another 100HRS on it and comment again.I know after breaking in numerous units major improvements and full potential will occur after 200HRS, 300HRS no excuses to be had.Only time will tell.
I did notice that when I changed volume positions the sound changed.When it was set at a position other than the breakin position I felt it sounded the same as when I started.I emailed Nicholas as to which position I should use to break in.Full gain,each position? I havn't gotten an answer on this.If we have to break this unit in at each position that will suck.This is the case with the Bent unit according to John Chapman.John dosn't recco you use full gain as it may magnatize the transformers.Anybody have any input on this matter?
So,how did it fare against my active?To date not as well as the Bent but close.My active[Loesch&Wiesner] has the edge in pace & timing and weight.
Well it's cooking as we speak now has 120HRS and will have 130HRS when I sit down again this evening.
Until we meet again rollo

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #547 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:15 pm »

I have read that any TVC needs to be broken in at each gain setting.

One way of looking at this is that you'll have a system that will be improving for years

gooberdude · « **Reply #548 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:35 pm »

Thanks for the update Rollo. leave it be AT LEAST another 100 hrs. i think most of the quibbles you report will disappear in the next few weeks.

When i purchased my TVC, nick recomended to turn the knob up all the way & then back it off 2 or 3 clicks for proper burn-in. no clue if each knob click needs a burn-in, the transformers are really what you want to cook - not the volume knob.

i used a cable tv box as a source for about 30 days straight (while i was working or sleeping). Even after 250 hrs the TVC kept opening up and getting more slam & control. to my ears, it wasn't burned-in until after 400 hrs or more...

PTC · « **Reply #549 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:47 pm »

Hello Hopefull this isnt a DUMB question.Does sound have to be emanating from speakers for proper burn in or can I just have my cable box feed the TVC and leave my amps off?Thanks,Paul

anubisgrau · « **Reply #550 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:55 pm »

furthermore, i have a tuner and an integrated amp (marantz pm 66SE) that are not being used at the moment so i was wondering if i could use them for burning the TVC when it arrives next week. I do also have a pair of speakers but I would rather not use them if this is not harming the amp - only tuner, TVC and integrated. I assume I can connect TVC to any line input or should I connect it via tape monitor?
Will this work? I would hate to sacrifice my main rig just to cook the TVC

gooberdude · « **Reply #551 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 06:14 pm »

Your amp & speakers do not have to be involved. I plugged a source into the TVC and connected the TVC to my amp via an interconnect. The amp was turned off though, and occasionally unplugged. The TVC needs some resistance on the outputs to burn-in properly.

so, you need a source that can play 24/7 like a tuner or cable tv box, and make certain the TVC's output has some resistance.

its good to have all equipment hooked up initially, so you know your source is playing correctly. Once confirmed, shut down the amp...

please correct me if this is incorrect.

rollo · « **Reply #552 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 06:22 pm »

A source such as a tuner connected to an amp[turned off] will do just fine.The entire system does NOT have to be on.
rollo

P.S. Forgot to mention that the unused inputs require a shorting plug for the TVC to sound its best.The top end especially. The dimensions of the dual mono is 12"lx8"w2 3/4"h.

launche · « **Reply #553 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 07:14 pm »

Anyone have any extra shorting plugs they'd care to share?

Thanks

Dan155 · « **Reply #554 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 07:15 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 19 Dec 2006, 05:15 pm

I have read that any TVC needs to be broken in at each gain setting.

One way of looking at this is that you'll have a system that will be improving for years

Keep in mind that each volume setting simply accesses a different tap on the secondary. Whatever the volume setting, current is passing through both primary and secondary windings, and flux through the core.

gooberdude · « **Reply #555 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 07:21 pm »

hey launche, PM me for some shorting plugs.

i purchased 15 pair a while back, still have 3 pair left to sell. $1 each + shipping.

matt

rollo · « **Reply #556 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 07:48 pm »

Thanks Dan155 rollo

anubisgrau · « **Reply #557 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 09:26 pm »

i kinda understand the problem of burning a TVC in - different windings, different cooking. BUT, if this is an issue, it would be obvious within a second that something is wrong, the moment you go one click up or down from a burned-in winding.

isn't it

gooberdude · « **Reply #558 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 09:33 pm »

I haven't noticed any issues as in a difference in sonics from one click to the next. Ramping up the volume with this TVC is quite difft than any pre I've used.

rollo · « **Reply #559 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 01:23 am »

Gooberdude,
Maybe the suggestion of breaking in each position interrupted my listening session.This evening I'll give this issue some time.However you have the only unit I know of that has 400HRS on it.So your the GURU for now.
Your also correct about using a vibration draining system ala brass cones and a wood plinth with some weight on top.Not too much though as it seems to harden the sound,have you noticed that?It's imperative that the wood is ISOLATED from the surface below or it dosn't work.
Another thing I found out was that the Ayre Enhancement Discs' Demag. track[7] made a huge difference after a long break-in period.It removed most of the HF crispness and slight brightness heard during the end of the 105HR break-in.I guess the steel core of the transformers may magnatize during the extended break-in and the wires as well.Any thoughts on this?
thanks rollo