[95bcwh]

How many of you have listened to speakers like this? What's the rational of using horn?
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acapella/lacampanella.html

Granted, I will probably get to listen to a pair of acapella next week, I hope they sound as good as they look.

[JLM]

Horns (front and rear loaded) typically are very dynamic and efficient (lending themselves small amps, historically this was a necessity).  Directivity can also be controlled.  But IMO they have drawbacks:

1. In order to get high efficiency they compress the air in a non-linear fashion creating colorations (distortion).

2. The acoustical nature of the horn (enclosure) is heard.  Pressures are much higher than in other designs so this is more of any issue with horns.  The result again is more colorations.

3. Horns must get extremely large to extend response into deep bass (50 - 1,000 cubic foot or larger examples can be found).  Because deep bass from a horn isn't a viable option, some sort of dynamic (cone) woofer is almost always employed.  The challenge here is to find dynamic woofers with the speed and efficiency to "keep up" with the horn.

IMO issue #1 can be resolved by use of larger horns at lower sound pressure levels, but the size required would probably limit their use to midtreble and higher frequencies.  And IMO solid wood (1 - 3 inches thick for tweeters) is the best material for horns (issue #2), but again is only practical for smaller horns.  The acapella example (pad the horn down and use multiple small drivers) resolves issues #1 and #3, but quite unsuccessfully as Srajan points out.

I've heard a couple of this type of speaker (less expensive though).  As with most horns, the sound was shouty and forward (midtreble emphasis) and the woofer(s) were poorly integrated, causing a very annoying smearing/disconnection from the horn.

[Parnelli777]

Can't let this one go without a response. I'll never understand this single-car-speaker-in-a-box fetish.

An 8" single driver lover is gonna tell everyone about the downside of horn speakers? What? All horn speakers? Some of them suck, no doubt about it. But, I gotta say, you guys wouldn't know what full range meant if it slapped you in the head 15 or 20 times.

95bcwh- Go out and listen to the Acapella, also try and get a listen to the Avantegarde Duo, or Trio. You just might not ever look at anything else. Except for maybe stats, or Magnepans. I've spent quite a bit of time with the Duo and OTL tube gear at a friends and at my dealer. I'll say that I've never had more intimate, wonderful stereo playback time with my favorite music, or any music for that matter, than with these speakers(the Duos). They pretty much do it all. The downside is FAR, far outweighed by the upside, and there's a lot of upside.

[Bill Baker]

 I have heard a countless number of high end expensive speakers over the years and none were without compromize in one way or another. Okay, maybe some more than others. This does not make them a poor design.

 I can appreciate all types of speakers but must admit horns have a special presentation that makes you feel alive. Are the perfect? Not usually but what speaker is.

 The way I look at it is if you can audition a speaker and walk away telling yourself that is the speaker for you...... make it happen. Afterall, it's YOUR system. I have a countless number of speakers to choose from for my personal home system and come this weekend, my Usher D2 horns may find a new home in my family room.

 Build your system for yourself, not the critics.

[Scott F.]

Can't let this one go without a response. I'll never understand this single-car-speaker-in-a-box fetish.

An 8" single driver lover is gonna tell everyone about the downside of horn speakers? What? All horn speakers? Some of them suck, no doubt about it. But, I gotta say, you guys wouldn't know what full range meant if it slapped you in the head 15 or 20 times.

95bcwh- Go out and listen to the Acapella, also try and get a listen to the Avantegarde Duo, or Trio. You just might not ever look at anything else. Except for maybe stats, or Magnepans. I've spent quite a bit of time with the Duo and OTL tube gear at a friends and at my dealer. I'll say that I've never had more intimate, wonderful stereo playback time with my favorite music, or any music for that matter, than with these speakers(the Duos). They pretty much do it all. The downside is FAR, far outweighed by the upside, and there's a lot of upside.

Very well put. Thank you. 


(I'm a horn lover BTW)

[Jon L]

It's great that horns have been making a comeback, in step with the SET renaissance.  Too bad some hornspeakers' prices have reflected the, ehem, enthusiasm. 

If I were to spend >$20K on hornspeakers, I would definitely go with a design that is horn-loaded for the bass as well.  I'd much rather take limited horn-loaded bass extension over fully extended conventional woofer solutions. 

IME, the better the horn midrange/treble, the more obvious the non-horn bass problems.

Having said that, a well-designed speaker of any genre is capable of delivering musical bliss, it's the usual YMMV, etc.

[DeeCee]

Gee, what kind of a board is this anyway??? No gun fire?  No flames??? 

Soon we'll be having a sing-a-long... "Give peace a chance!" 

At any rate, I never met a speaker type or genre that I didn't like (at least in one aspect
or another, although I have heard plenty of badly executed ones).

I am not generally big on horns, but I will say one thing: as far as sheer dynamic impact,
and the general "flavor" of certain types of instruments (e.g., drums and brass), a well
designed horn system can be matchless in realism.

My nits in general with horns however is in the area of a tendency to "blur" in the mids.

Unfortunately I have not heard many of the newer horn designs, so my info in regard to
a critique is to be taken with a grain (or maybe even a boulder) of salt...

The best thing of course, is to just plain listen! (and not to just one example of any particular
type).

Of course, YMMV.

- DeeCee

P.S. Oh yeah, in honor of International Speak Like a Pirate Day: "Arrrrr!"

[JLM]

P777,

What a gracious response.  I'm so glad open minded, non-condemning folks like you are here to gather the facts first before speaking out in a traid.  If you want to read more of this same sort of reasoning try the SP Tech site at their circle below. 

BTW I've owned speakers capable of 114 dB at 17 Hz.  Have you heard the FTA-2000 speakers or the Fostex F200A drivers?  The drivers themselves are rated 30 - 20,000 Hz, use an alnico magnet, and cost $375 each (not your typical single driver).  Have you ever heard transmission line bass?  BTW I'm a firm believer in the fundamental need for foundational bass and believe that most of the single driver crowd have learned to ignore or do without deep bass.  So please don't lump me with "them guys" or my drivers with car speakers.  (Now who's stereotyping?)

I've not heard the Duo's, but have heard a couple front loaded horns and stand by what I said of them.


Scott, I'm amazed and disappointed you jumped in like that.

[Bemopti123]

From an equipment hoarder, I have had my share of loudspeakers and still have them lined up for the time when I will be able to enjoy them further.  A pair of unplayed or unrealized gems are a pair of Zhorn Garudas that Tom Z sold me, and I placed my own set of Fostex Sigma 208 EZ drivers about 4 years ago.  I had matched them up with a Final Laboratory Music 5...which did not quite provide a synergistic match.  Fast forward until the early Summer of 2006.  I was able to get my Assemblage 300B up to specs through Parts Connexion, Canada.  I ran the 300B amp with the Zhorns, with a cheap Ipod Shuffle(MP3 player, SIN!) into the amp with attenuation via a pair of discontinued EVS nude stepped attenuator.  Holy moly, the set up, even in its preliminary form was amazing, especially with the midrange delivery.  There was no, to little bass produced, but even with the midrange shout(these drivers, I do not believe have had enough play since I bought them 4 years ago for a Voigt pipe project) they sounded great. 

Now, due to little Marcus at home, I am running a pair of Altec 755E OB, along with a Chinese GE DVD player and the Final Music 5 battery amplifier, with sub duties delegated to an Infinity Subwoofer, courtesy to my spending binge trying get that ephemeral single driver, fullrange set with the failed Voigt pipe project. 

What I have learned from Horns is that they have their strengths, but how someone I met in NJ, where I went to hear a pair of Sierra Brooks horns, modified to run a pair of Supravox EXC 215 field coil drivers, and who had the set up hooked up to parallel 2A3 amplifier, ugly but built with vintage 1930s iron... said " Horns do not produce sweeping images, but for the type of music I listen to, Jazz or vintage Classical recording in either record or CDs, they suit me fine."  He added further, "I find that the only type of speaker that minimizes the room boundary effects, or totally discounts the room from the acoustic equation, is the horn speaker." 

As for my own playing customs, I like to play all different types of music and I own different types of speakers, a pair of them being the FTA-2000s.  They are awesome pair of speakers.  Nevertheless, once I get more real estate, I will be able to swap speakers more easily.  One thing is for sure, those behemoth low efficiency speakers of yore, are now out of question. 

Horns are nice with the right set up.  So are other different types of design.  How someone has well mentioned, it all boils down to taste...some people not being able to deal with the colorations that horns produce...Yes, bass is a major issue with horns, but I guess if the midrange is well "cooked", one might forego the lack of bass, but then, some might simply be able to live without it.  Another issue with horns that people did not point out is the need to have large spaces to "blend" in the horn image.  Most households today are simply not deep or large enough to allow sufficient distant for blending in of the horn soundstage, as produce by larger horns.   

[JLM]

Paths crossing...

Tom Z allowed me to borrow a DIY chip amp for home audition and eventually sold me his Channel Island Audio VMB-1 40 watt chip amp monoblocks.  Last we "spoke" he was using Fostex F200A in open baffles.

Speaking of directivity and room interactions...

With no whizzer, the 8 inch F200A is directional at higher frequencies (like horns) and in open baffles would provide dipole wave propagation, thereby taking out room effects at the lowest frequencies.  Without dipole room loading, I don't know how any speaker can take the room out of the equation at bass frequencies.

Regarding rear loaded horns...

I've heard several with the best being Martinelli's two-way floorstanders (no corner loading) with wood horn and dynamic woofer that he had at the 2004 Midwest Audio Fest: http://www.woodhorn.com/.  Single driver horns just can't do deep bass.  I've even heard a pair of 35 cu. ft. rear loaded subs using twin 15 inch drivers that didn't do bass as cleanly or deeply as the FTA-2000s.

About imaging...

Although the physics differ open baffles and horns IMO both require depth (2 - 3 times the distance between speakers) for the imaging to "gel".

[GHM]

Can't let this one go without a response. I'll never understand this single-car-speaker-in-a-box fetish.

An 8" single driver lover is gonna tell everyone about the downside of horn speakers? What? All horn speakers? Some of them suck, no doubt about it. But, I gotta say, you guys wouldn't know what full range meant if it slapped you in the head 15 or 20 times.

Man you're off by a mile on that one.. . There are no perfect speakers. So I won't get into what design is better than another..this design IMHO doesn't exist. I personally try to keep an open mind. You never know what you'll run across and fall in love with. As said previously..go listen for yourself.


Good listening

[95bcwh]

Ok..the horn speakers I listened to just now did not disappoint at all..

It's true that the bass can be better, but is there a perfect system in this world?

check out my impression on this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31637.0