[RoadTripper]

I am about to take the leap for the Sig-30. I have been playing the Clari-T for the last 20 months, the last 12 of which have been the mostly fully modded version. Could somebody push me over the edge by telling me what kind of difference I will experience going from the Clari-T (which I find is hard to leave alone compared to anything I have had or heard yet) to the Sig-30 (which is so proclaimed as other-worldly as to be hard to believe)?

Note that I will be driving either my Zu Druids or my VMPS RM-40s off of my Squeezebox.

[zybar]

I wouldn't think the Sig-30 would be a good match for RM 40's.

They will want more power and current than the Sig-30 can deliver.

George

[srayle]

Honestly, God bless Vinnie, but

You'll end up going back to tubes.
Sorry, but the digital amplifiers are too 'perfect' and sterile sounding ULTIMATELY (but not apparently
so up front). I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Fi Monoblocks, will NEVER sell them, and yes, I have heard the
Signature 30 live, in person, and they left me only with a feeling like, "yeah, it be nice to have that",
and with NO desire to give up hot glowing S.E.T. glass!!!! If I HAD to choose one or the other...tubes. TUBES!

If you must have a Sig 30, make sure you have a great tube amp to rotate in  there when you want to listen
to the musicality and passion of music (perhaps on some sweet open baffles).

Solemnly sworn this frabjous day in the year of the Dog,

Me

[Vinnie R.]

Honestly, God bless Vinnie, but

You'll end up going back to tubes.

Hi Seminarian,

Are you currently using tubes?     I thought you mentioned that you are using a customized Clari-T-Amp and you asked "what kind of difference I will experience going from the Clari-T to the Sig-30?"

The answer to your question is that the Signature 30 has a more balanced sound than even the most custom Clari-Ts (which as you know are very nice sounding!  ).  The Signature 30 has more mid range "fullness", a smoother top-end (not rolled-off -- just smoother), and better bass response.  It uses a different board, different chipset, different (buy somewhat similar) design. 

From the emails I have received from Sig 30 + Zu Druid customers... this is supposed to be a very nice pairing!  Zu now owns a Sig 30.  Maybe they'll bring it to RMAF 

Regarding the RM 40s, Zybar is right about them wanting a lot of current, as they are a 4-ohm speakers.  If you are looking to be able to play them loud, I'd go with a more powerful amp for them.  Otherwise, I'm sure the Signature 30 will push them very well... to a point.  I have a Sig 30 owner pushing Quads and another who tried it with Maggies and it had no problems (especially if you don't play at loud levels or are in a smaller sized room).

If you must have a Sig 30, make sure you have a great tube amp to rotate in  there when you want to listen to the musicality and passion of music

If you are looking for "the musicality and passion of music" the Sig 30 will certainly deliver.  I take srayle's comment above to make it sounds like you must have a tube amp to give you "the musicality and passion of music," which I totally disagree with.   If you are looking for more "tube-like" sound, you can try using a tubed CDP. 

If you are a tube fanatic and must have see that hot glowing SET glass in your system, that is fine and is a matter of taste and I respect that... but if that is the case, stick with that.

Seminarian,

Getting back to your post, being that you are very pleased with the sound of your customized Clari-T you might want to stick with it if you find it has enough power for your speakers.  If you feel the need to give the Sig 30 a try, there is a 30-day refund period (which can be extended upon request if you are still having a hard time deciding).  This is the only way you'll know if it is right for you.  Your ears, your decision.   

Best regards,

Vinnie

[RoadTripper]

So how loud is loud in this discussion? I can tell you, since I own a Radio Shack SPL meter, that I don't usually go over 85 dB. My room is a medium living room, 8 ft ceiling, 25 x 18 feet or so.

Relating to the "do all amps sound the same" discussion, can I assume that I would be able to easily distinguish the Clari-T from the Sig-30 blind?

Thanks for the input.

[budbrew]

I'm a tube-o-phile and I'm extremely happy with the Signature 30. I had to give up a nice pair of 300B SET monoblocks because of a young baby and searched around for a suitable (tolerable) replacement. I settled on the Sig 30 and I hardly miss the tubes. And I don't miss the heat, weight and the extra care tubes require.

For me, the emotion and intent of the musician and music is paramount. The Sig 30 does that well. It does not "sound like a tube amp," but it has the qualities that many tubes amps I've heard have that I like. So I'd say it falls into my target sound prefs, which many tubes amps do as well.

[macrojack]

I found with the Sig 30 that I had a vague sense of something missing when I first started to listen to it. As time went by I became more and more certain that that was the case and I grew to realize that the missing elements were all undesirables like masking, AC grunge, distortion and the hollowness that can accompany tube presence. This little integrated amp competes with or exceeds (depending on who you ask) the best tube amps and sells for the price of an annual retubing. It would probably pay for itself in 3 years by simply reducing your electrical consumption.
With Zu you will find a marriage of the gods; a sound that will be both happy to hear and refreshing to embrace. I haven't experienced the current OB movement but everything I hear about it, is considered and provided by Zu with the exception of the DIY price advantage and Zu even offers a modicum of that through factory dirtect pricing.
I had already moved up to the Def Pros by the time my Sig 30 arrived so I have not used the exact combination you will have but I owned Druids for six months with a Clari-T similar to yours so I think I can project pretty well as to what you can anticipate WHEN (not if) you take the plunge.
Are you feeling any closer to the edge or are you already in freefall?
I'll PM you with an invitation to hear my system. It is vivid.

[fu_man]

...the Omega  Signature  30  !!

 

[-Richard-]

Hi Seminarian ~

I honestly do not know what Vinnie's highly moded ClariT sounds like... knowing Vinnie's
genius for applying everything he knows about the dark science and art of amplifier
circuitry he must raise the level of the ClariT many times past its original performance
potential... after all, Vinnie is one of those rare audio designers that actually learns
and grows exponentially as he listens and experiments... opening himself up and
constantly reassessing what is possible... he really is a genius at what he does...
and a marvelous gentleman to bout!!!

I heard the original ClariT, however, and I own the Signature 30... I may actually have purchased
the very first Signature 30 that Vinnie created outside of his own personal versions ~

Vinnie has created something really special with the Signature 30... and I will go out on a limb
and suggest it is the direct result of Vinnie "learning to listen" with a deeper attentiveness to
the potential of what is possible with the tri-path circuitry in terms of liquidity, flow, naturalness
and ease in allowing the music to enter the listening space without any sense that it is being
produced by an amplifier... the music simply lives... free to affect the passions and emotions
in the way that is unique to music ~

Deborah loves the Signature 30 at least as much as I do because of its charming easy flowing
natural sound... she loved it instantly straight from the box... "it sounds like a tube amp that is
perfect" was Deb's response... Deb knows tubes and SET tube amplifiers as much as any
"seasoned" audio enthusiast out there... Deb loves the Signature 30 on its own terms ~

The difference between the original ClariT and the Signature 30 cannot be overstated... the
Signature 30 is an incredibly sophisticated assault on the highest level of amplifier design that
is possible today... please do not let the price fool you into thinking that Vinnie has made some
form of compromise in its performance... if it sold for $9000 and had a bit more optical jewelry
encasing it, owners would feel that they easily got their moneys worth... Why? Because the
performance of the Signature 30 is extraordinarily sophisticated, refined, balanced, delicate
and sensitive to music's "inner" dimensions... the textures and "colors"  of the instruments,
the macro and micro details, that almost every other amp I ever heard either miss or
render unnaturally ~

The Signature 30 is beautifully balanced throughout the frequency range... which helps to create
the magical sense of the music being fully alive and intact ~

I strongly urge anyone who is thinking of purchasing the Signature 30 to give it a try... see for
yourselves what Dmason, and Srajan, and I are so excited about!!!!

Warm Regards ~ Richard ~

[kbuzz3]

heres a reason.....since my sig 30 arrived two weeks ago my tube monos rest in the closet..

[Dmason]

Once it gets really well worked in, it starts doing a very good solid state amp's impression of SET dimensionality, I have found. An amazing creation, that completely rewrites the book on solid state amp sonics. How's that?

[rajacat]

Dmason,

Does the Sig-30 drive your speakers to a level that surpasses all of the uniqueness of the SET presentation? You mentioned that it has a " very good solid state amp's impression of SET dimensionality", so is that impression the equal or better when it comes to PRAT? Will you retire your SET's to the closet too?

Raja

[Srajan Ebaen]

There's one area where tubes still hold an advantage over the Sig 30 - and that is with that peculiar 3-D holographic thang that's hard to describe but noted by pretty much anybody when present. I've been at this writing gig for a while and still don't know how to describe it, exactly, except to say it's similar to running, going thru the knot to find the second wind, then stopping when the sweat is running freely and finally sitting down somewhere and just *looking*. The way dimensionality seems enhanced then is what the best low-power tube amps do. And that the Sig 30 doesn't do to the same degree and I haven't heard one non-tube amp yet that does.

That said, the Sig 30 does better bass, is quieter than most good low-power SETs, has no maintenance issues, is far cheaper, can drive far more speakers with authority... in short, when you add up the + and - points, this thing is simply silly good beyond belief and an effrontery to anything that's more complex, heavier, hotter and more expensive and doesn't sound as good. (Which is a lot).

And if you really want that n-th degree of dimensional, semi-hallucinatory pop/float/thang, get a really good tube preamp (which probably will cost three times the price of the Sig 30) and you're all set 

Mind you, it'll have to be a really good tube preamp to do no harm and only good. That's how well-balanced the Sig 30 is all on its own. I've got one here. And it's $8,000 

[Dmason]

Raja,

I'm not a -one- amplifier guy. I won't be retiring any SET amps in the near future, and this is no reflection on the Sig 30, which I am listening to now. I have always owned tube amps, own three, and will always try more. What will reduce me to a -two- amp person is when Roger Modjeski calls with his new RM2A3, and when I get my Signature 75 monoblocks from Vinnie, then, I could retire the existing amps.

 Possibly the enhanced dimensionality thang is coming from the superb driver control of the B200, which is on an open baffle. Either way, the sound is pop, swirl, everywhere, just not in a Directly Heated Triode kind of way. Srajan puts it into far better perspective, -although the aerobic threshold/hyperoxygenated analogy is abit out there... Having just put down a Tom Robbins novel, I must say this analogy seems perfectly appropriate.

[jrebman]

I'm a newbie around here and just want to say thanks to all these replies to the original post as I too am considering taking a deeper RWA plunge.  I currently own a fully-modded Clari-T which is sitting between the outputs of my Capitole Mk. II SE and my Abbys, and doing a far better job than a series of valve amps that preceeded it.

I've sold off all my low-power tube amps (except for a partially complete Welborne Signature DRD 300B, which will also be going), but not because I have anything against SET, but rather because I've fallen in love with a new pair of speakers that they simply won't drive sufficiently.

My new Acoustic Zen Adagios will be arriving this week, and now I'm certain of it -- as soon as Vinnie announces that he's taking orders for the Signature 75 monoblocks, I'll be placing my order.

I was a bit concerned about the whole imaging/soundstage thing that Srajan mentions, but I'm confident that the tube output stage of my Capitole will bring enough of this to the table for me, especially in combination with the monoblocks (which, I am fairly sure that with their separate power supplies, should do even better in this department.)  Hell, The Clari-T and the Abbys are doing this reasonably well right now, and I'm sure it's only ggoing to get better.

Any idea on monoblock pricing and availability yet, Vinnie?

--Jim

[Vinnie R.]

All,

Thank you for posting your impressions/comment of the Sig 30!  All your feedback here is very valuable and much appreciated.   

As I post on the Sig 30 webpage, I tried by best to achieve

the best sonic attributes of solid state amplification (rock solid bass, dynamics, and control) and SET tube amplification (midrange warmth, rich tonalities and a smooth non-fatiguing upper frequency resolution).

Srajan's comments above nailed it... Compared to the best SETs, there is a trade-off:

The way dimensionality seems enhanced then is what the best low-power tube amps do. And that the Sig 30 doesn't do to the same degree and I haven't heard one non-tube amp yet that does.

and

That said, the Sig 30 does better bass, is quieter than most good low-power SETs, has no maintenance issues, is far cheaper, can drive far more speakers with authority... in short, when you add up the + and - points, this thing is simply silly good beyond belief and an effrontery to anything that's more complex, heavier, hotter and more expensive and doesn't sound as good. (Which is a lot).

And the Sig 30 can drive less efficient speakers much better than SETs.   For example, I've listened to it with DeVores (Gibbons Super Eight), Gallo (Ref 3s), and FJ (OMs) to name a few and it did the trick.  As I mentioned earlier, I have customers who are using such speakers that are not considered high-efficiency or "SET friendly" and are very pleased with the results.

Mind you, it'll have to be a really good tube preamp to do no harm and only good. That's how well-balanced the Sig 30 is all on its own. I've got one here. And it's $8,000 

True, and this is why I think it is a good idea to try going without the preamp.  In order for a preamp to do more harm than good, it needs to be a damn good preamp!  They aren't cheap as Srajan points out.  IMO, it is better to put your money towards a source whose sound quality you can really live with an enjoy for a long time, and feed that directly into the Sig 30 and keep in simple. 

Any idea on monoblock pricing and availability yet, Vinnie?

Hi Jim,

Welcome to Audio Circle and the RWA forum!  It is nice to have you here.

I am still working on the Monoblock design.  I am trying my best to reuse the Sig 30 boards for this, but configure them into "parallel output" mode for the monoblocks.  This isn't a matter of setting a jumper....it is a lot more cumbersome but I hope to be able to pull it off soon.  If not, I'll need to have a new board designed from sratch and this will change the pricing somewhat.  I'll keep you all posted on the estimated arrival time of the Signature Monoblocks and pricing as soon as I have this all figured out. 

Thanks again for all the great posts here!

Vinnie