Is there a good $500 CDP?

JLM · « **on:** 5 Sep 2006, 10:23 am »

Interested in audio only. Looking to move back to a CDP after using a modded Squeeze Box (too many PC related fustrations). Very satisfied with the sound, but need to step back until the technology has matured and become friendly to dummies like me.

At around $1000 there are other alternatives: stock Olive; Rega Apollo, CEC, etc. It seems that the Jolida, Music Hall 25, Ah Toebe, etc. are a step down and don't save much cash. And don't like the idea of spending $800 to mod a $150 player.

I read that as the mass market has moved to universal players, suppliers of CD chips are drying up, so perhaps the trend indeed may be set in stone towards $1000+ boutique dedicated CDPs, computer based sources, and universal players.

BTW a check of Agon showed a bunch of Sony 9000's, wonder why?

Thanks for the help!

opnly bafld · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 12:58 pm »

Sherwood Newcastle CD-980T (20 bit BB dac) $500
Cambridge Audio Azur 640C v2 (24 bit Wolfson dac x2) $599
" " " 540C v2 (24 bit Wolfson dac) $429

Lin

boead · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 01:40 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 5 Sep 2006, 10:23 am

Interested in audio only. Looking to move back to a CDP after using a modded Squeeze Box (too many PC related fustrations). Very satisfied with the sound, but need to step back until the technology has matured and become friendly to dummies like me.

At around $1000 there are other alternatives: stock Olive; Rega Apollo, CEC, etc. It seems that the Jolida, Music Hall 25, Ah Toebe, etc. are a step down and don't save much cash. And don't like the idea of spending $800 to mod a $150 player.

I read that as the mass market has moved to universal players, suppliers of CD chips are drying up, so perhaps the trend indeed may be set in stone towards $1000+ boutique dedicated CDPs, computer based sources, and universal players.

BTW a check of Agon showed a bunch of Sony 9000's, wonder why?

Thanks for the help!

What problems is the SB giving you?

The USB DAC are really simple and work like a Win/MAC sound device. Nothing can go wrong. I’m using almost 30 feet of USB cable and it displays no difference in sound then a short 2 foot cable, apparently transferring the raw data from the PC to the device is impervious of audio anomalies unlike digital SPDIF cables. This is why the SB can transfer via WiFi without any issues or concerns.

The Scott USBTD is really wonderful and since you already have a PC full of music…
The SN is clearly superior to my Denon 2900 and my buddies Jolida with NOS tubes.

I totally agree with not modifying cheap players. Have you noticed how many Decware modifies Sony’s are failing? Lots! Why? Because they are cheap players!!

I think the Scott Nixon will best most CDP under $1000.

gongos · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: boead on 5 Sep 2006, 01:40 pm

Quote from: JLM on 5 Sep 2006, 10:23 am
Interested in audio only. Looking to move back to a CDP after using a modded Squeeze Box (too many PC related fustrations). Very satisfied with the sound, but need to step back until the technology has matured and become friendly to dummies like me.

At around $1000 there are other alternatives: stock Olive; Rega Apollo, CEC, etc. It seems that the Jolida, Music Hall 25, Ah Toebe, etc. are a step down and don't save much cash. And don't like the idea of spending $800 to mod a $150 player.

I read that as the mass market has moved to universal players, suppliers of CD chips are drying up, so perhaps the trend indeed may be set in stone towards $1000+ boutique dedicated CDPs, computer based sources, and universal players.

BTW a check of Agon showed a bunch of Sony 9000's, wonder why?

Thanks for the help!

What problems is the SB giving you?

The USB DAC are really simple and work like a Win/MAC sound device. Nothing can go wrong. I’m using almost 30 feet of USB cable and it displays no difference in sound then a short 2 foot cable, apparently transferring the raw data from the PC to the device is impervious of audio anomalies unlike digital SPDIF cables. This is why the SB can transfer via WiFi without any issues or concerns.

The Scott USBTD is really wonderful and since you already have a PC full of music…
The SN is clearly superior to my Denon 2900 and my buddies Jolida with NOS tubes.

I totally agree with not modifying cheap players. Have you noticed how many Decware modifies Sony’s are failing? Lots! Why? Because they are cheap players!!

I think the Scott Nixon will best most CDP under $1000.

Good luck getting SN to respond. I emailed him 3 times months ago and never heard anything.

WEEZ · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 09:02 pm »

JLM,

If I understand correctly, you control volume via the SB? If that's the case, you will need a line controller or pre-amp with a CD player- unless the player has a volume control. Most CD players that include a volume control use a cheap control.

(unless you expand your budget quite a bit and look at Audio Aero or Wadia)

For $500, I would look for a good used Rega Planet 2000. Maybe the Channel Islands passive controller along side?

I wrote a little bit about my CEC player over on the Decware digital forum. It is a really good player. You might try to get a listen to the 3300R. It costs $690. If it has anywhere near the sound of my TL-51XR, it should be a killer player at it's price.

Otherwise, Cambridge or Marantz have new models at $500 or below.

I wouldn't underestimate the value of a good pre-amp, however.

good luck, and report back!

WEEZ

boead · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: gongos on 5 Sep 2006, 08:27 pm

Good luck getting SN to respond. I emailed him 3 times months ago and never heard anything.

Call him; he usually picks up on the first ring. Problem isn’t getting him on the phone, its getting him off!

Scott is a super cool guy and will give you the skinny on whatever you want to know.

boead · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ on 5 Sep 2006, 09:02 pm

I wouldn't underestimate the value of a good pre-amp, however.

good luck, and report back!

WEEZ

Absolutely!! Preamps make a giant difference and many (if not most) for the worse but some for the better. The last two I had were/are for the better (Van Alstine, McAlister).
Don’t judge just any preamp. Some high end integrated’s and a Bryston I had prior weren’t great and my amp actually sounded better without them but NOT so with the Van Alstine, it made my system sound better in every way and the sound stage was LARGER with it. I find most people report larger more airy sound stages without a preamp and I found that to be true with some preamps but like I said not with the AVA or the McAlister.

WEEZ · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 09:30 pm »

Not to get too far off topic here, but yes, I agree that a 'good' pre-amp will add weight; soundstage; and fullness. Also control volume and source selection. The normal stuff. The most important is that a good pre-amp will provide a buffer between the source and the amplifier. Usually, a passive volume control has an output impedence that varies all over the place and provides no buffering (ouput impedence is too high).

I also agree that some pre-amps are not too good. But, IMHO, that is not an excuse to not use one. Just don't use a shitty one!

Back to CD players....

WEEZ!

Merle · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Sep 2006, 11:50 pm »

Not sure about a good $500 player but the Rotel RCD1072 is a GREAT $700 player. Easy to find used in your budget. It really is a fine cd player.

SET Man · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 12:23 am »

Hey!

You know this might sound funny to some of you high-ender out there

But I have been using a 5 discs changer Sony SACD player SCD-CE2000ES since it first came out in the end of '04 I think. I got this when it first came out and it was on sale for $300.

A few good points of this machine for me are

1. Could play SACD and CD

2. 5 discs changer. Yeah! it come in handy after a long day at work... no need to get up often to change the CD.

3. Price

4. Most important of all.... Surprisingly good sound.

As for the sound? Well, no complient here. I only use it for 2 channels only but it could do 5.1 also. This cheapy sound pretty damn good! Especially after I did 2 simple non-electrical tweaks inside it of which made it sound smoother

I don't think I will fooll around with parts upgrade in side because I have been wanting an Audio Note DAC 2.1 tubed DAC for sometime now to make my system completely tubed signal

Anyway I think it still available and maybe chaper now. If you do pick one up make sure you break it in before doing any comparison.

Take care,
Buddy

scottnixon · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 01:30 am »

I do answer all email that I can, usually 40+ every couple of days. There are some that don't get through spam filters for some reason and quite a few responses I send get rejected by employers email time waster filters, these are not resent. Spend about 12 hours a week with email, plus it is very easy to phone and you get faster response.

Soundbitten · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 01:42 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 6 Sep 2006, 12:23 am

Hey!

You know this might sound funny to some of you high-ender out there

But I have been using a 5 discs changer Sony SACD player SCD-CE2000ES since it first came out in the end of '04 I think. I got this when it first came out and it was on sale for $300.

A few good points of this machine for me are

1. Could play SACD and CD

2. 5 discs changer. Yeah! it come in handy after a long day at work... no need to get up often to change the CD.

3. Price

4. Most important of all.... Surprisingly good sound.

As for the sound? Well, no complient here. I only use it for 2 channels only but it could do 5.1 also. This cheapy sound pretty damn good! Especially after I did 2 simple non-electrical tweaks inside it of which made it sound smoother I don't think I will fooll around with parts upgrade in side because I have been wanting an Audio Note DAC 2.1 tubed DAC for sometime now to make my system completely tubed signal

Anyway I think it still available and maybe chaper now. If you do pick one up make sure you break it in before doing any comparison.

Take care,
Buddy

I bought one about 4 or 5 months ago ( wanted the convenience of a changer ) for around $300 and use it with a Scott Nixon tube dac . The sound is detailed yet smooth and musical . I couldn't be happier with it .

eric the red · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 02:31 am »

Buy a Cambridge Audio 640C V2 from Audio Advisor. If you don't like it after 30 days, all it will cost you is shipping to send it back. It's a great cdp. Spending any more than $500.00-$700.00 on a cdp these days is throwing money away IMO.

GHM · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 02:51 am »

Try to dig up a used QUAD 99 CDP. These normally sell around $500. The CDP2 will run you $750 or so. Very nice player with variable output. It can also be used as a Dac with other digital gear.

Good luck with the hunt

LightFire · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 03:27 am »

Any US$ 150.00 universal player (Sony, Pioneer, etc.) With a digital output will do the trick. You don't need a dedicated CDP. Just use the digital output of the player and the quality will be identical to the quality of any other player, cheap or expensive. Unless your amplifier doesn't have a digital input. In this case it is better to buy an amplifier with a digital input instead to invest money in an expensive CD player.

rbrb · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 05:42 am »

There has never been a better time in history than right now to spend $500 on a CD player. There are approximately a gazillion CD's in circulation around the world. And they are not region coded. There will also continue to be new and exciting CD's to come for many years. CD is not going away anytime soon.

Players like the Cambridge 640C use the same DAC as players costing up to 3 grand. The 640C gives people a a taste of the high end. Just use a really good interconnect on the stereo analog outputs.

JLM · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 09:44 am »

merle,

Regarding the used market, that's why I wondered about the flood of Sony 9000 players on Agon. I had a Sony 7700 (the original Sony DVD flagship player) and had heard they were filling up the boneyard. I own a Rotel receiver and think of it as a well built plow horse, but not a thoroughbred. Maybe I'll look into the 1072.

soundbitten,

That's another direction I was wondering about (a cheap player like the Oppo 970, they're all universals now aren't they?) with an inexpensive DAC. Know of any "killer" combinations?

eric,

I agree with your premise of spending over $500 as you could go with a new Olive for $900 (or modded starting under $1300). Technology is taking over, but it's just not friendly enough for me yet (waiting for Olive to offer PDA interface to cure their relatively small display issues).

Maybe I should have titled this thread "Is there a really good $500 CDP because the sound quality from the RWA modded SB3 (and prior a Sony 7700 with Ack dAck! v.2) would probably spoil me for the likes of typical $500 CDPs.

GHM,

My friend, the Stereophile review of the Quad 99 indicated good sound for the CDP, but definitely not via it's pre-amp. BTW Tom (TIC) has a 99 v.2 currently in the Trading Post circle. As others here (and you) know, a good pre-amp makes all the difference. If I can't find a really good CDP (or transport/DAC) for $500 I'll probably just get the tube pre-amp first and live with my 7 year old Sony XA-20ES.

rbrb,

I see the mass market pushing sales of cheap universal players primarily and stock Squeeze Box type of devices secondarily. That leaves few sales for dedicated CDPs and little incentive for manufacturers to produce, let alone R&D new, CDPs. Already supplies for CD drives and chips are beginning to dry up and introductions of new dedicated CDPs are getting rare. That would leave audiophiles with few options (modded universal players, modded SBs, or expensive dedicated CDPs).

GHM · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 10:33 am »

Yeah ..I understand where you're coming from JLM. I thought this is what you wanted. Something that can be plugged directly to the amplifier. Some guys prefer CD players or sources direct to an amplifier. Because as they say "simpler is better".

Of course I've tried this and do prefer a preamp of some sort. The Quad really isn't bad if the direct route is what you seek. It just takes careful system matching. I wouldn't use it with a SS amplifier myself. I think it's much more suited for a tubed amplifier with decent or high input impedance. When matched properly it's a terrific unit. It's just like anything else in this hobby. If you don't match the equipment properly, no matter what you buy it will sound like crap.

I never tried my QUAD with a preamp or buffer. I'm sure it would have been for the better in my system though.

Why not just use the Sony as your transport for now and add a separate DAC? There's plenty of those to choose from used at or below $500. I'm sure there's at least one out there that will make you content for a while. You can spend the rest on a used tubed preamp.

Sounds like the Monarchy Model 24 tube dac/tube line amp combo would be good for you. This way you get your tubed preamp and Dac in one bundle. You can use the Sony as the Transport. I've seen these go used around $750 to $800 also. I know of two fellows that I communicate with regularly that use this unit. One has been a professional equipment reviewer for many years. He uses the Monarchy in one of his systems with great results. He also prefers this unit to the Benchmark.

All the best

eric the red · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 09:55 pm »

Here's a Rega Jupiter that just came up for $700.00 shipped. Great price on a great cdp.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1162761678

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 01:02 am »

JLM,

There is nuthin' but barely adequate CD players at any price. The technology is just not up to snuff - 16/44.1 is not adequate...nor is 24/48 enhanced recordings. They are all hopelessly flawed - there simply is not enough storage on that medium to get all of the music...but there is on a DVD disc.

Buy a good DVD/DVD-A/CD player and get a few dozen new DVD-A titles.....Cambridge, NAD make 'em and all three formats are good...but DVD-A shines because it is better from the start.

No slight to anyone of you that has invested large bucks and time in CDP (myself included), but the technology of CD just ain't musical - burdened by low storage it is mastered with heavy hands at the control board; DVD-A discs can be recorded straight out as there is more room to store it all. DVD-A has much of the musicality of vinyl in a much more convenient format...bettering CD, even at cheapo price points for players, by a city mile.

My experience with SACD was not satisfactory either....it's high frequency production is tragic, actually.

Anyhow, good luck any way you go on it