[tonyptony]

With the spike in new vinyl and my desire to get some of these releases, I've been wondering how to proceed with my vinyl playback. I've been wanting to do something here for a while anyway. I am still using my AR ES-1, although over the years it had already been modified with the Merrill spring kit.

I have been searching the used table / tonearms on places like Audiogon, but then came across Anthony Scillia, who has been continuing the work of Merrill and (it seems) improving on it. In particular I was looking at the new polymer subchassis and armboard, which are claimed to offer an even bigger improvement than Merrill's own acrylic versions.

I'm unsure as to where I will get the biggest bang for the buck. While I still play vinyl, my collection is not going to get too much bigger than what I have now. I'd like to hear from other AR owners out there if going the route of a new subchassis and platter, with a new/used tonearm will get me a significant improvement.

While I liked the sound of the ES-1 I always felt it was maybe a little soft or "slow". Part of it may be that I'm still using the Premier MMT arm, which I know was pretty unremarkable. The spring kit did help. I'm figuring between all the bits and pieces that I'd be looking at for the remaining upgrades it's on the order of $700 (subchassis, top platter, pulley all new polymer versions, stainless steel stud kit). Since my ES-1 is so old that it doesn't really count in the money equation, does it make sense to get a level of improvement for that kind of money compared to a used TT I could get used for about the same amount? In either case there would be a new arm / cart so that is really a wash in terms of additional cost.

[TheChairGuy]

Spring TT's tend to sound 'soft'....I think the term most often used is plush.

Mass laden/non-suspended sounds tauter, tighter to me...and better all in all.   I think most folks are of that camp now.

I have heard unipivots, of which I think your MMT qualifies as, work best on mass/non-suspended decks...the jouncy spring suspended tables make the unipivots work a bit too hard for their original design purposes 

There may be those here that would know better...this is mostly things I've read, not experienced (regarding the tonearms....I have good experience with spring and non-suspended tables).

Your move on the next upgraade path for ya'....

[tonyptony]

I have heard unipivots, of which I think your MMT qualifies as, work best on mass/non-suspended decks...the jouncy spring suspended tables make the unipivots work a bit too hard for their original design purposes 

That's something I've not heard before, CG. Is there a general sense on what sort of arms might work better for this kind of sprung table?

[andyr]

I have heard unipivots, of which I think your MMT qualifies as, work best on mass/non-suspended decks...the jouncy spring suspended tables make the unipivots work a bit too hard for their original design purposes 

Hi ChairGuy,

I suspect this might be an old wive's tale ... all I can say is, my Graham 2.2 works brilliantly on my LP12 - and it's quite a common pairing amongst those Linnies who don't believe Ivor knows best in everything (and so don't want an Ekos)!   

Regards,

Andy

[Berndt]

I have heard raves about the ar that is modded. A fully modded ar es-1 just sold for 400$ on fleabay, w/o tonearm.
I didn't have the $$$ to jump. People whos opinion I trust really believe in this deck, an unsung hero of sorts, maybe I'll get them to chime in.
Bill

[Peter Gunn]

Sprung versus rigid is simply a matter of taste, which basically boils down to whether you prefer musicality to absolute detail retrieval. I prefer musicality, which is the sprung design, and I also own the ES-1.

The most important factors to good vinyl playback are:

1- The record has been cleaned on a table properly and treated with record preservative
2- The table is set up correctly
3- The table is on a wall mount or is isolated as much as is possible
4- Keep your stylus clean and don't play bad or uncleaned records with it, EVER

After this, if you want to upgrade more

1- You didn't say what cartridge you are using, this is a possible upgrade - Blackbird or Shelter
2- If you don't like the arm you have, look at stuff like the Origin live silver
3- Speed, speed speed. Replace the motor and get an outboard controller. This will do more than any of the plinth mod crap.

But really, setting the damn thing up right is 75% of the battle. I don't care what arm or cartridge or 6 grand mod is on it, if the thing isn't set up right, is on a bad stand or the records haven't been cleaned properly, you already lost. Get the first bit right, then mod slowly, and never change 2+ things at once. If it goes wrong you'll have a hell of a time figuring out what caused it.

Good luck!

[TheChairGuy]

Amen to Peter's several points above....spring vs. solid table is just a matter of preference, and endless (near pointless) debate.  Proper set up, on a sturdy stand with your table on a level plane (more important with spring suspended tables than non'ers) with the arm dialed in right for your cartridge (no easy task unfortuntely - one of the reasons that despite vinyl's more enjoyable musicality, we are in the minority of music lovers) is key.

Ditto on a spic n' span clean record with preservatives (LAST is what I use).  I might suggest the fantastic Premier or Contact Cleaner C by Microsorb if you can't spring for a Nitty Gritty or VPI cleaning unit for that Nth level of clean.

Have to try an outboard speed control soon....another way of improving many decks is investing in heavier platter than originally came with the deck (check to make sure the Merrill spings can support heavier weight) as the heavier weight platters will serve to greatly null stylus drag inherent in all belt drive machines and allow it to behave with more stable speed control...like a direct drive TT. I don't know the AR unit well...but if your platter isn't somewhere in the 10 lb range, it could  be one of the reasons for the soft sound you are detecting.

[WEEZ]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the MMT arm on a suspended 'table. There are untold numbers of those arms on SOTA Saphires (which are suspended) and were actually sold that way.

I have never understood the disdain for the Jelco arms...whether they be branded Premier, Linn, or Audioquest.

Peter is absolutely correct. Proper set-up is more than half the battle.....

WEEZ

[Psychicanimal]

Check out the AR table Mapleshade Records modified...

[mcrespo71]

Check out the AR table Mapleshade Records modified...

Link?

[bacobits1]

Mapleshade's web address doesn't even work.
http://www.maplesahedrecords.com/

D

[Brad]

You've got MapleshadeRecords spelled wrong in your link......

[bacobits1]

www.mapleshaderecords.com
doesn't work either. Did you try it?
D

[Brad]

yep

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com works for me
Both typing it and clicking your link.

[Brad]

I did find several dead links within the site (going to some specific products from the tweaks page)

[bacobits1]

HA! It doesn't work with either browser here. WTF?
IE or FireFox.

Fixed. Cleared the cache.

Den

[Listens2tubes]

You don't want points under equipment. Points couple your speakers to the floor. You want balls! I have experienced obvious improvements in CD players , turntables, amps and preamp with K Works IsoFeet. Example: smoother, more extended highs from a VPI Scout. Put 3 IsoFeet under a friends CDP immediately more air around Ella! Email Igor at: gorkuz@yahoo.com  for the full story.

[Wayner]

For about $100 you can get a local granite company to make you a base to fit under your table. NOTHING moves granite! That's why all highly sensitive equipment are always supported by granite.

W