lets go tothe next level (cartridge advice)

ricmon · « **on:** 29 Aug 2006, 08:25 pm »

OK here’s the deal. I have just added the Rig Mat Anniversary record support and Project Speed Box MkII to my Pro-Ject X1 TT. I also removed the rubber feet and put in some metal height adjustable cones and reused the rubber feet under the metal cones. The TT is nicely isolated and has taken on a more "hi-end" look. (BY the way all you speed box users may get better results if you use your original TT power supply instead of the one that comes with the Speed Box) I can honestly say that with addition of the Rig Mat and Speed Box that my analog front end has taken as huge step forward. Lots more of everything and I am one upgrade from sonically slamming my digital front end and here's where I need some advice. I want to upgrade my cartridge. My budget is a max of $500.00 bucks. So, what’s the best cartridge I can get for my money?

Scott F. · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 08:43 pm »

Cartridges, like most audio, are a personal like/dislike thing. In that price range I personally think the Dynvactor 20XH is a great cartridge. You'll have to donate about $80 more bucks to the cause though.

ricmon · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 08:54 pm »

Quote from: Scott F. on 29 Aug 2006, 08:43 pm

Cartridges, like most audio, are a personal like/dislike thing. In that price range I personally think the Dynvactor 20XH is a great cartridge. You'll have to donate about $80 more bucks to the cause though.

I looked up the Dynvactor 20XH on the net and one thing stuck out as a strong positive is that he tested it with the Project Speed box. This one goes to the top of the list.

Wayner · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 09:03 pm »

I really like the Sumiko Blue Point Special III. It tracks wonderfully, is well balanced from top to bottom and it's about $400. Not a blue light special at k-mart, but can stand right next to alot of over-priced, underperforming for the money cartridges.

Sonny · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 09:08 pm »

Quote from: ricmon on 29 Aug 2006, 08:54 pm

Quote from: Scott F. on 29 Aug 2006, 08:43 pm
Cartridges, like most audio, are a personal like/dislike thing. In that price range I personally think the Dynvactor 20XH is a great cartridge. You'll have to donate about $80 more bucks to the cause though.
I looked up the Dynvactor 20XH on the net and one thing stuck out as a strong positive is that he tested it with the Project Speed box. This one goes to the top of the list.

Yes, I think the Dynavectors are a great value. Have a 10x4 and love it on my Scout table, so much that I have a brand new Shelter 501 MKII that is still awaiting installation. it's been sitting, patiently, in the box now for 3 months!

SET Man · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 09:17 pm »

Hey!

I have Sumiko Blue Point Special EVO III on my Rega Planar 2 w/ RB250 arm. Definately a very tracker. Overall it sounds great with my set up with great dynamic

I got it at $350 before the price increase

Other cart that was on my list was Dynavector 10x5 at $380 high output MC.

You know maybe next time I will see if I could try Dyna on my Rega.

Take care,
Buddy

mfsoa · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 09:56 pm »

SET Man,
What VTA have you found works well for your BPS EVO III? Arm slightly down, flat etc.

I haven't played much with mine on a Project Perspective Carbon, but so far the cart. is good, not great. Its my first MC and I'm used to Grados, so I don't mean to knock the BPS. I just haven't spent the time to know I'm getting the most from it. I have been feeling the Grado urge again, though, and for ricmon's $500 I think you can do well with Grado at that price.
Any VTA or tracking force tips appreciated.

ricmon,
I also got the Speedbox, didn't know you could swap the power supplies. Interesting, thanks. Again, haven't spent too much time with it so I don't know if it helps much. But with the Perspective (w/out Speedbox), you need to change motors to change speed, so with the 33 RPM motor and the Speedbox, you need to use the 45 RPM setting to get 33 RPM. The only way to have selectable 33 and 45 RPM is to use the 45 RPM motor, which has a larger pulley, which may not sound as good as the 33 RPM motor/pulley.

Keep us updated on your search!

Thanks

SET Man · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 10:31 pm »

Quote from: mfsoa on 29 Aug 2006, 09:56 pm

SET Man,
What VTA have you found works well for your BPS EVO III? Arm slightly down, flat etc.

I haven't played much with mine on a Project Perspective Carbon, but so far the cart. is good, not great. Its my first MC and I'm used to Grados, so I don't mean to knock the BPS. I just haven't spent the time to know I'm getting the most from it. I have been feeling the Grado urge again, though, and for ricmon's $500 I think you can do well with Grado at that price.
Any VTA or tracking force tips appreciated.

Thanks

Hey!

Well, as for the VTA. The Rega RB250 doesn't have the VTA adjustment

But with my own thin cork mat instead of a bit thicker Rega stock mat the tonearm is slightly sloping down toward the back a bit... with 180 gram LP maybe 1mm or 2mm lower than the end of the cart. I think if I remembered it right I've read somewhere that lower will have a bit fuller sound... emphersing more low end and higher at the back will sound lighter. I guess you just have to keep adjusting it until you get the the point where you think sound neutural to you.

I used to have Grado too. I forgot which model but I think it was around $100 Before I got the Bule Ponit than Blue Point II and now BP III. To me the BPs are much better than $100 Grado... well at least in my system.

I think you need to do some adjustment. I set my VTF at 2gm. As for the VTA you have to expriment with it. I think you could start at the lowest setting and than start to rise it up until you think it sound well balanced... use a good recording on 180garm LP help.

You know I might get the VTA base for my RB250 and see if you could get the sound to be even better than this. It would be suck if I got the VTA base and ended up at the same hight as befor without it.

Take care,
Buddy

WEEZ · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 10:59 pm »

I've posted before about my fondness for the 'Grado sound'. They can be finicky in some arm/'table combinations, however. They work well in Sumiko MMT & FT3 arms; as well as the AQ arms. (basically, any Jelco arm).

To be on the safe side, and not be disappointed, I would highly recommend a Dynavector 10x5. They track well; work in a variety of arms; and they sound really good. It'll cost $100 less than your budget.

Harry at VPI has been known to say that Dynavector are one of the few cartridges that actually meet their published specs and have consistent quality.

(the 20x series ARE much smoother. Scott F. made a good recommendation. If you can stretch your budget.....)

WEEZ

JoshK · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 11:16 pm »

I have a Dynavector 20xh and I'll been contemplating going up to the line to the 17D3 (lo-output). I might be persuaded to sell you mine. It probably doesn't even have 50 hours on it yet.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 11:34 pm »

ricmon,

If you haven't ever talked to Klaus at Odyssey, you ought to. He regularly sends spent cartridges to Mr. van den Hul in Holland to get a re-tip with a van den hul, boron stylus. I have a several year old Sumiko Blue Point (2.5mv, so it'll work in any phono input) with the brand new vdH stylus and it is delicious. I think it was a hair over $300.00....Mr. Bunge treats ya' right. He had other re-tipped exotics a few months ago, too. His prices are outrageously fair.

You could also save a bunch and go the Grado route...buy a Gold for $180.00 and spend an hour of time to do the van Alstine Longhorn mod (I see you have van Alstine gear...if you dig Frank's gear, you'll love his cheapo tweek). See a previous post here in the Vinyl Circle on our findings regarding it. The Grado's are pretty poor trackers...the little Longhorn mod improves that much of it's performance dramatically, according to users. It wil sound like $500.00, but end up costing you about 1/3 less

Tho I love my BP/vdH and I had a (cheapo, low end) modded Grado years ago in a Townshend Elite Rock that was truly spectacular....so I may one day try the mod myself on a Grado to see.

ricmon · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Aug 2006, 02:12 pm »

Thanks for all the advice guys. I will difinitley give Klaus at Odyssey, a call. And as for the chair guy I have followed your tt mods and the longhorn mods you made and in fact the longhorn mod is somerthing I have always concidered. I going to give it a little more thought and then take the pludge. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks agsin and good listening

ricmon · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Sep 2006, 08:35 pm »

Ok guys I decided on a Sumiko Black Bird. It was a little more than I intended on spending but you know how it is when we start buying audio gear. Anyways it should arrive by next week.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Sep 2006, 02:14 am »

Quote from: ricmon on 19 Sep 2006, 08:35 pm

Ok guys I decided on a Sumiko Black Bird. It was a little more than I intended on spending but you know how it is when we start buying audio gear. Anyways it should arrive by next week.

Sweet.

Lend a review here in a new topic if you can once it's burned in. It's a popular cartridge, but I don't find many reviews on it out there.

Muchas gracias,

John/TCG

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Sep 2006, 04:56 pm »

Ricmon, you the man! Yes, let us all know how this Sumiko Black Bird sounds. It has been on my list as well!

W

ricmon · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 06:36 pm »

Finally got the Black Bird set up properly after several tries. Upon first listen I thought I had just thrown several hundreds of dollars down the drain. At first I thought it was too delicate sounding. So I increased the down force. Then it was the surface noise. I like to listen some time at high volumes so the noise between track was unbearable. Well after listing some more and adjusting or reducing the down force things quitted down and just music started to emerge. After some more break in I can honestly say that my analog play back has taken a HUDGE step forward right over my digital front end (which is pretty darn good). Vocals have taken on a more human quality. The attack of guitars, drums, and what have you are sharp and precise. Band with is wall to wall, all the base the room can take and lush mids and spackling highs. From the audiophile lingo, sound staging and imaging are 3d and tactile. Basically since getting the Black Bird set up properly I have not listen to my CDP

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 07:52 pm »

Ricmon,

I would expect some playing with VTA may be in order as well. I have discovered that very small height adjustments can do marvelous things. You will know when VTA is right because it will sound right. As you may know, the arm should be parallel to the record surface. If the arm base is too low it will be bass heavy and pick up a lot of surface noise. If the arm base is too high, it will sound shrilly all because of an incorrect "rake angle". Let the cantilever break-in for a while, I think you will be all smiles. Keep us posted.

Wayner

ricmon · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 07:59 pm »

I think teh VTA is fine but i'll check when I get home. Thanks for the advice.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 10:59 pm »

We expect a full review, ricmon, nothing less will do

Enjoy it - break it in well first before we hear from ya'. It's amazing what 20 hours will do to break in a mechanical device like a cartridge.

shep · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Oct 2006, 07:34 pm »

I may have missed it but I think a mm cartridge was missed in the discussion. It's only available in Japan now and if memory serves me right was a very fine one: Audio Technica 150ml. Correct me anyone if I got this number wrong. While on the subject, I would loveto hear anyone's experience with the AT linear trackers from the 80's. There were several versions over say a 5 year period. The SL-10 was the prettiest. I know some came with an MC cartridge and an in-board step-up transformer.