Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg

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amandarae

Although I am satisfied with the sound of the Groneberg IC’s with WBT termination during the time I was using them in my system, I move on to more costly cables, with supposedly better performance, a few months ago.  

Since my Gronebergs and TS premiums IC’s are just sitting in my audio bin, perspiring heavily and anxiously waiting their turn to be called for  service again, I decided to do some experimentation.  I bought some regular Eichmann Bullet Plugs from PartsConnexion and started working on my new found curiosity.

I observed that the only challenging part in doing the transformation is how to fit the Groneberg jacket to the body of the bullet plug.  Careful trimming of the jacket, and at least make them symmetrical so as not to be an eye sore, solve the problem.  I use Silver solder bought from a local electronics shop, some shrink-wrap with SOP colors (Red for +, and Blue or Black for return) to complete the job.

Before I start my litanies regarding my observation through my comparison, I would like to mention that I still have a pair of the WBT terminated Gronebergs so as to compare if there really is a difference between the morph Groneberg-Eichmann (GronMann) or my ears are just hallucinating (if they are capable of that, voices of my imaginary friends in my head not withstanding) if a difference is heard.  
Also, in the company of the regular Gronebergs, the IC’s that are “ready for the battle” per se, waiting very quietly without any form of sibilance are Empirical Audio Holophonics, Nordost BlueHeaven, MIT 330I medium impedance, Bogdan Silver IC’s, Kimber Hero and John Risch Design Analog IC’s a.k.a Signal Cable Analog 2.  I really want to compare it to some other IC’s that is double or triple the price of the GronMann but I do not have money to buy them.

It’s been 37 days now (yes I am counting!) since I plug the Gronmann to my system.  A week ago (again, I am counting) I figure (and who is to argue) that a comparison is now in order.
Not including the Holophonics, the GronMann blasted the competition, smoke the pretenders, whoop their behinds (as well as the front whichever you prefer), spank the rest like a red headed step-child (just kidding! please don’t sue me), rises to the top, surpasses the rest, super mega over to the max compared to others, in terms of presentation, bass, detail, stage, clarity etc. (please plug your favorite adjective describing the strong point(s) of your audio system here _______.)

The Holophonics you asked?  Well, considering that I pay more for these (I have 2 pairs) per pair compared to the GronMann (solder, shrink-wrap, treatment for minor burns because the 4-wire Groneberg is a bitch to solder to the miniscule Eichmann soldering points/pads, all included) it is sad for me to say that they sound the same.  Yes, they sound unbelievably the same in my system.  In fact my better half is now making a journal regarding why I am still awake at 4 A.M. (week ends only of course) listening to my CD-TT-CD-TT (repeat as long as you want). and swapping cables in between. I think she’s into something (preparing invaluable evidence?).   I will deal with that later.

My system is made up of Martin Logan Ascents, Odyssey Sratos Monos with 360,000 uF caps (…herrrr… Klaus told me when we were having dinner some time back that I do not need to upgrade them to the Extremes….), Jolida Modified JD-100 running Sylvania Gold Brand gold pins 5751; Michell Gyrodeck with Benz Ace M cart, Rega RB-300 arm, George Wright WPP-100C phono amp running with Mullards 12AU7’s, and RCA 6ER5’s; main pre is ARC LS-12; speaker cables are AZ Hologram MKII + Hologram jumpers; VD P2 power cords.

Next step is to figure out how I can fit the Groneberg TS premiums (much bigger jacket) to the Eichmann plugs.  Also, I can hear the voice of the Silver Eichmann’s calling my wallet for an ultimatum.  We’ll see about that…


Have to go now, (to my brother’s house for a shoot out between GronMann and Acoustic Zen Matrix Ref MKII …)
catch you later……..extend my regards to broadstreet, who ever he (an assumption) is…..

markC

Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #1 on: 15 Jun 2003, 03:43 pm »
So........ what you are saying is that the bullets vs. the wbt's is a worthwhile improvement? I've been toying with the idea of replacing the cardas slvr's on my diy fine wire silver ic's for a while now. And they're on sale here in Canada at Take Five Audio for $C45 for 4.

klaus@odyssey

Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #2 on: 15 Jun 2003, 10:01 pm »
Wowahooooo,

Man,  you took some time and care here,  and thanks for the nice words.
I have a few comments here:

1.  anybody working with the plugs,  be careful.  They're a &^$%^%#%^@%^ to work with.  You can either break them or hurt yourself in a second.
2.  I agree that even though the WBT's will always be my favorites,  they're at least as good,  and in some systems maybe even better.  With the 101's  I just like the locking factor and the solidity,  and in my home system,  it's tops.  Even better than the oh so super hyped Clearaudio super $$$$  connectors from several years back,  which I still have here.

3.  Dare I say it ?????  System synergy, system synergy, ...For example,  I listened to so many systems and gear,  it's not even funny anymore.  As with cables,  probably my all time favs are still the Dominus and other Purist cables.  Great, great cables,  but at what price ???? With lower ones,  I'm very surprised with the Bolders.  In the right systems they are superb.   With the Groneberg's I found something akin a no-brainer.  It's a cable that is the closest thing to a universal "good job" thing that I have encountered.

4.  Again,  synergy.  I've read some comments about the Quattro in the past where it was described as grainy, flat,  and not smooth. Similar comments from some same people about teh amps,  btw.  Well,  I can make any piece sounding more smooth or grainy,  bass heavy or light.  System matching, room setup, cable matching, voila,  a different result.  I can also make a system sound so overly smooth or tight etc.  that the result is indeed very artifical.  Heard it myself.  With amps,  for example,  I can change the bias to change certain characteristics.  More or less "smooth" or bass heavy or detailed.  In this way the Stratos is a dream.  With cables,  I can change characteristics with the different plugsAND  solder.   With the Gronman,  AR  is obviously onto something in his system.  It's great to see that it works,  because realistically,  it's such a bs and so personal hobby.  Another customer of ours tried the Quattro with his Stratos and ML  Ascents,  and he wasn't too crazy about it.  AR, way to go my man.

5.  Lastly,  go ahead with teh TS Premium.  Just cut the outer metal sleeve about 1" off,  and stretch the jacket again after the job is done.  Diameter of the cable and the fit of the plugs will be the same.

Late,

Klaus

amandarae

Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #3 on: 16 Jun 2003, 03:16 am »
Klaus,

You are right my man.  It is a personal preference.  For example, I tried the Groneberg with WBT in my Stratos amp (wired internally with Gronebergs) and it is wonderful.  The one with Eichman's are connected to my phono pre-amp.  Which I believe and heard that it is where it should stay.  Conversely, the TS premiums with WBT are better overall in weight(no pun intended) when connected to my cd player.

Don't get me wrong :nono: , I kept the Groneberg and the TS premium because I love them.  Like everyone else here, I am intrigue when I read some cable IC's that are affordable and made good synergy with their system.  That is the reason why I tried some of the cables I mentioned.  

The TS premiums have been on my cd player for 7 months now, and that is where it will always stay.  Obviously, when one finds a better synergy, one should stop looking.  I have no complaints about the wire (Gronebergs), in fact I agree completely that they are "universal" wire that does it's job faithfully.  I am just exploring my curiosity of different flavors of connectors.  Another reason why I am adamant to touch the TS premiums with WBT for fear that its sound to my system will change.

Lastly,  I remember what you told me about wires vs. prices in audio, Klaus.  Ever since, I am an enlightened man :idea: .

No matter, my monos never ceases to amaze me driving my Ascent after 7 months now and counting.   Thanks again.

klaus@odyssey

Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #4 on: 16 Jun 2003, 09:01 am »
Glad that you're happy,  and yes, synergy, synergy, synergy.

BTW,  it's late and I'm going nuts to the new Led Zeppelin DVD with high spl's.
Man,  life can be great.  The MSG and earl's court takes are fantastic.  A must for every RR fan.

Late,

Klaus

Eduardo AAVM

Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jun 2003, 06:08 pm »
Maybe using WBT-0150 would be easier for the TS-Premium they, the WBT-0150 have an 11mm diameter input.

machinehead

Do know what the difference between the TS Premiums and the Quatrro Reference's are like cable geometry cross section and materials?

amandarae

Wow!  I was not aware that this thread stil exist!.  I feel like soooo  2003. :D

Yes, the TS Premium and the Quattro are different.  I know for sure that the construction materials are not the same from the appearance of the cable but can't remember if the wires, not counting the gauge, are the same.

You can type "TS Premium" in the search engine here and you will see lots of info, at least from what I remember.

Obviously, I move on from my audio set up seven years ago.  I no longer have the Stratos monos, the Ascents, and most of the electronics I had at the time of my write up.  But I still have the TS Premium and Groneberg  Quattro cables.  I been around.  For the price of the cables when I bought it, I found nothing close to its performance except the Mogami Neglex 2534 when oriented properly.

I still have the utmost respect for the man, Klaus, although I am not his customer anymore, because through out the years, as I move from SS/electrostatic, SS/planars, Tube/hybrid/box speakers, vintage, single driver formats, etc. up to my current DHT SET/high efficiency speakers, what I learned from him in terms of value/performance of the gears especially the one wearing the Emperor's clothes being pimp to get the audiophile approved status still stands, that "it is all in the design and execution of the design in terms of the equipment's performance.  Not to mention "bloodline".  That should apply to cables too.

Like the man said, "Synergy is the key!"  " Until you experience it, then you will never understand".

best regards,

Abe

Eduardo AAVM

Re: Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #8 on: 18 Feb 2010, 09:10 pm »
I have to said that a person of the Groneberg family preferes Eichmann over WBT's WBT-101, a good friend of mine who is also an Odyssey/Groneberg owner and fan as well of Symphonic Line came to a similar approach : he prefered Eichmann's.

Still I prefer WBT's 101s but I ordered some sets of WBT's NextGen to find out. I will use Groneberg-WBT NextGen but plan to have a pair of GroMann for my use and for demo purpose.

WBT's engineering is top notch but Eichmann offers a super product at an excellent pricepoint, I just ordered some Bullet Plugs to make them a regular combination, GroMann is a great match combination.

machinehead

Re: Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #9 on: 18 Feb 2010, 09:18 pm »
Eduardo, I agree that the Eichmanns are a great product, but was I won't buy the speaker wire bayonnets again, they are too difficult to get in and out of the binding posts.  I do love their RCA connecters however, and have not tried their banana plugs.

Eduardo AAVM

Re: Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #10 on: 23 Feb 2010, 05:23 pm »
Eduardo, I agree that the Eichmanns are a great product, but was I won't buy the speaker wire bayonnets again, they are too difficult to get in and out of the binding posts.  I do love their RCA connecters however, and have not tried their banana plugs.

I completely agree with you, altough I have tried to use other Eichmann parts I see no real benefit compared with others, but bullet plugs are very good.

Also I used some LAT RCA-NL plugs and for the price they offer a very good and solid product.

machinehead

Re: Got Groneberg with Bullet Plugs? A brief review of Groneberg
« Reply #11 on: 23 Feb 2010, 07:02 pm »
Eduardo, curious, did you get your Gronebergs re-terminated with the Eichmans yet?  If so how do they sound compared to the WBT's?

Those LAT's seem like a good value, how do they sound compared to the Eichmanns?