Chuck Stein's maple lumber transformed into HT3's

jsalk · « **on:** 27 Aug 2006, 03:18 pm »

Chuck does mill-work in Pittsburgh and had some nice fiddleback maple boards lying around for a few years.

He wanted to know if we could use them for front baffles for a pair of HT3's. We said, "absolutely!" (We always love working with nice wood.)

I happened to have some nice figured ropey cherry veneer on hand. I had used it with maple on a few previous pairs and the results were quite nice. So we decided to go for that combination.

Here are the results:

And a shot of the front baffle:

Chuck was dropping his son off for college his week-end. So he decided to take advantage of the fact that he was on the road and paid us a visit to pick up his HT3's yesterday. We had a great visit and he headed off into the sunset (well, he actually left a little earlier than that).

Happy listening Chuck!

- Jim

BradJudy · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Aug 2006, 09:30 pm »

As always, very nice work Jim.

Steve Vol · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Aug 2006, 02:00 am »

Chuck, congratulations on getting your speakers in. They look great.

I know the wait will be worth it. Lucky you, you did beat me on getting my speakers in, but I am not far behind you. Mine should be ready pretty quick so I am waiting with anticipation! Enjoy them, I know they will sound as good as they look.

Steve

ChuckS · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Sep 2006, 11:23 am »

It's been almost a week of listening, and I now feel that my comments on these speakers have a bit of validity. However, I honestly must say that I am unable to say any thing different from my first gushing of audiophile cliches and hyperbole. So I won't.
I'll just say that these sound fabulous, phenomenal!
and: There are no other speakers out there that can approach the beauty of Jim's work, as far as I know.
and: Jim is a great guy, if you can - meet him! I just have a feeling that he was and is quite a ladies man, so hold onto your woman!
and: The wait - the old adage applies- You will quickly forget the time it took to produce these, but you will never forget the quality!
and: my "other speakers" in my "other system" are not sounding too good now that the HT-3s are upstairs. I may need another pair, and I would not hesitate to buy a painted pair. Yeah, they sound that good!
Thanks Jim, I will treasure and appreciate your work for a very long time, good lord willin' !

ChuckS · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Sep 2006, 11:26 am »

Oh yeah, one more thing: the pictures don't even come close to showing the beauty of the wood.
The maple and cherry are very 3 dimensional, and I don't feel that the pictures convey this, at all.

AudioFanKJ · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 12:18 am »

Chuck, I will have to totally agree with you. Especially on the fact that pictures just do not capture the fire, the depth, the figuring, etc. of the wood, and the exquisite woodworking!

Give them about two weeks of play time, the bass will plumb depths you haven't heard and the mids and highs just smooth out and become more textured...

I may have only had mine set up and breaking in a week or so before you got your pair... amazing refinements progressing!

DMurphy · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 01:44 am »

I must say reactions like this continue to puzzle me. I'm delighted that you like the speakers, but I'm just not sure what physical laws could explain a serious change in the sound--particularly in the mids and highs--due to "break in". I know from experience that the W18 and G2 measure exactly alike on day 1 and day 60, at least with the crossover in place. The surround and spider on the TC1 woofer might relax a bit with use, and that could change the bass response a little. But otherwise, I still think the speaker you hear when you set them up will be the same speaker you hear 2 months later. If I believed otherwise, I would have to wait 2 months before I started my crossover work.

AudioFanKJ · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 02:18 am »

Dennis,

With all due respect - there are many factors involved... you mentioned the drivers - obviously the surrounds have a certain amount of mechanical "break in" - this was most noticeable on the bass initially...

As for what physical laws? I can't say - what I can say is what is heard. Here are a few variables that come to mind:

Sonicap Platinum - upgraded caps - I am positive I have read in many places it takes a few hundred hours before optimal performance is reached - maybe a factor...

Internal wiring - also new, and the dialectric will stabilize over time. If this is 5 minutes or 2 weeks - I don't know.

What I can say for certain, what they sound like today is MUCH different from two plus weeks ago... this is not due to "ears becoming acclimated"...

Notable sonic changes - sound was "compressed" when speakers are new, soundstage compressed as well... dynamics, both macro and micro weren't there... bass was "weak" and not as fast as it is now.
The sound was "there" however, sounded more like details, rather than music.

The sound now is much more "relaxed", "effortless", the attack is there, the decay is there, harmonics are there... the sound is similar to if an acoustic guitar was plucked in the room... you hear the strings, you hear the note, the resonance, the decay, etc. Initially it sounded like a recording of a guitar (maybe even tape recording, as the bass wasn't fleshed out yet), now the sound is very lifelike.

What I can not explain is if the W18 & G2 measure the same on day 1 and day 60 perhaps they don't sound the same... perhaps the crossover you are using is fully broken in, and not new, perhaps the wiring from the crossover to the drivers is also broken in, etc.

The other variable that has become much more noticeable is much of the changes with break in are much more apparent as the associated gear is more refined. I used to be in the boat that "break in is nonsense"... as the system has evolved, also has the clarity, the finesse, the detail, etc. Subtle changes, such as a power cord, or tubes are just as noticeable as a speaker that has a woofer that isn't as fast as the mids and highs, as well as the soundstage collapsed and such...

Just a few wandering ideas...

DMurphy · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 01:36 pm »

Well, in my own self-interest, and in the spirit of "the customer is always right," I will choose to interpret your experience to mean that the resolution of the HT3 is so high that it will reveal changes in upstream components that might otherwise go unnoticed. (But as for the cap break-in thing--I think those stories are started my sellers who don't want you to return their products because you can't hear any difference the first time out.)

avahifi · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 03:06 pm »

Dennis, are you suggesting that a good way for me to drive my already very low return rate for our 30 day satisfaction guarantee towards zero would be to emphasize that it takes at least ninety days for all our resistors and capacitors to break in, along with the necessary break in time for the jacks, switches, power cord, and neon lamp in the power switch too?

Oh dear, we have been overlooking something!

Frank Van Alstine

P.S. The HT3s keep rolling right on, performing beautifully

Frank Van Alstine

DMurphy · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 03:14 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 2 Sep 2006, 03:06 pm

Dennis, are you suggesting that a good way for me to drive my already very low return rate for our 30 day satisfaction guarantee towards zero would be to emphasize that it takes at least ninety days for all our resistors and capacitors to break in, along with the necessary break in time for the jacks, switches, power cord, and neon lamp in the power switch too?

Well--there you go. You obviously need an economist on board to help drive your profits to zero. But I do need to emphasize that the views expressed in earlier posts are the pet peeves of the author, and do not in any way represent the views of the true management of Salk Sound. And I hope Jim reads this before he pushes send on that angry e-mail I'm sure he's writing.

AudioFanKJ · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 06:55 pm »

Alright Dennis... I am certain I can sympathize with you... as a designer/engineer one must depend upon measurements... this must be extremely frustrating when people "claim" to hear differences that are not measured... Seriously, it would be a pet peeve of mine as well.

OK then - let's assume I am the ONLY one whom has ever heard a speaker "break in" and sound better over time.

Have you ever tried an aftermarket power cord? I know I am also not the only one whom hears a difference with an upgraded aftermarket power cord.

Does that aftermarket power cord (which also goes through break in, and sounds better than the stock power cord) measure the same amount of current or voltage going through it as the same stock "belden" AC cord that comes with an amp?

Perhaps I shouldn't wager they would measure the same too... ?

DMurphy · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Sep 2006, 09:08 pm »

Well, acutally, in the only blind power cord test I've participated in, I couldn't hear any differences. But if there is an audible difference, then it can be measured. Somehow. We might not know what to measure yet, but there can be no differences on sound reproduction that aren't due to basic and observable physical laws.

AudioFanKJ · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Sep 2006, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 2 Sep 2006, 09:08 pm

But if there is an audible difference, then it can be measured. Somehow. We might not know what to measure yet...

Dennis - I am in full agreement with you. I am not trying to dispute your genius work. The HT3's sound glorious. What I am saying is there are subtle audible changes that can be heard in certain situations. Just because we may not know exactly what or how to measure that yet doesn't equate to not being able to hear the difference. If there honestely wasn't a sonic difference, I doubt Synergistic Research, Shunyata, Cardas, Purist Audio, etc., etc. would not be selling power cords. The sonic change isn't always better, and some may be attributed to the various types of shielding... however, there remain sonic changes with power cords for example. To be honest - I wish I didn't hear the difference with an upgraded cord - who wouldn't like to save the several hundred dollars per aftermarket cord on every piece of equipment? But, this hobby is all about squeezing out the best performance of each piece of gear as well as the system sound as a whole...

Again Dennis - none of this was aimed at you. I am fully satisfied with Jim's HT3 and your crossover! I just happened to mention break in... This along with power cord changes and such are personally puzzling to me. I have no idea how a 6 ft. piece of cord from the wall to component will fully transform/change (for better or worse) the sound of a piece of gear.

My apologies to Chuck! There was no intent to "hijack" your thread! Just wanted to let you know you may (or may not

) hear refinements and improvements in your HT3's as time progresses!

DMurphy · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Sep 2006, 02:43 am »

Hi I didn't interpret your remarks as a slam at me. (And, in any event, I'm pretty thick-skinned and don't really think I have any particular "genius" at anything except getting lost in the Northern Virginia suburbs, where I spent most of tonight). I just wasn't sure whether you were saying measurements don't matter, or that we may not be measuring the right thing. If it's the latter, then we are in agreement. That said, I do remain pretty skeptical about power cords. Maybe it's just that my ears only seem to pick up on colorations caused by driver misbehavior. Maybe there are subtle differences among various components in imaging and soundstaging that just go over my head (or around my ears).

95bcwh · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Sep 2006, 06:54 am »

I have my HT3 for more than 3 months.. it sounded just as good as when it arrived on the first day.. I didn't hear any noticeable difference. Maybe I just don't have a pair of golden ears..

With regards to power cord or cables, are there still people who sincerely believe that all cables/power cord sound the SAME? Because even with my less than potent ears, I can pick up difference in sound when I switch cables and power cords. I see them as "coloration", whether one should spend tonnes of money to acquire certain "coloration" is entirely his personally decision. On the other hand, I have been struggling to pick up the difference in sound due to so-called cable "burn-in".

In any case, I am particularly not impressed with people who say one cable "A" is better than "B" just because they like cable "A" better in their system. Your opinion may vary of course.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Sep 2006, 08:55 am »

Talk about good fortune! With all those components changing over time as they "burn in," it's a miracle that the changes are always for the better!

At any rate, I'm jealous as hell of your HT3s.

MaxCast · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Sep 2006, 11:59 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock on 10 Sep 2006, 08:55 am

Talk about good fortune! With all those components changing over time as they "burn in," it's a miracle that the changes are always for the better!

At any rate, I'm jealous as hell of your HT3s.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with a Vikqueen fan but I always thought the same thing. Break-in always sounds better.

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Sep 2006, 12:51 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock on 10 Sep 2006, 08:55 am

Talk about good fortune! With all those components changing over time as they "burn in," it's a miracle that the changes are always for the better!

At any rate, I'm jealous as hell of your HT3s.

FWIW, I have heard a product get worse and stay worse during and after break in.

Although you are right that the majority of the time it always gets better.

Makes you think...

George

ChuckS · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Sep 2006, 01:19 pm »

So,um, my speakers look REALLY nice, don't you think?
And they still sound fantastic, just as when I first got them!