[Sesha]

Sometime ago, I forked out $75 on a Marigo Audio Crossbow CD Mat, which has got glowing reviews from audio pundits, like this one from the impressively named Jason Victor Serenus.  The pundits at Stereophile have also chipped in.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_3/marigo-labs-signature-3d-mat-7-2005.html

CD mats are supposed to be able to contain refractions, thus giving music a tighter focus with all that goes with it -- clarity, dynamics, etc. Marigo Audio promise vast improvements to sound with their mat.

Now, I'm the proud possessor of a pair of golden ears, but try as I might, I couldn't discern any improvement to write home about.  So before I go and rinse my ears in Listerine, could anyone tell me their take on CD mats in general and the Crossbow mat in particular?

[HumanMedia]

I tested a different brand (on a trial basis) and astoundingly enough it did change the sound.  I dont want to even guess at what  physical factors were at play.  However the sound for me was worse, as it sucked the life out of the midrange.  Then when the mat stuck the cds to the internals on two different players and scratched the discs, they were banished for good.

[Kim S.]

I got a Sound Improvement Disc from Music Direct.  It may be a placebo effect, but I do notice an improvement.  More detail and better imaging.  The difference is subtle. 90 percent of the time I forget about the mat and play my cd's without it.

[TheChairGuy]

The Herbie's Audio Labs mat is good, and cheap, at $7.95.  It does help things a bit with CD....but my real opinion of CD's is that there is so many inherent weakness' to it (via the recording process), that it can't be improved to the extent that it sounds convincingly like music.   No matter what you do to it in it's playback phase, you won't coax 3 dimensional sound from it.

Frankly, CD's I get from my local library are good, too.  I attribute that to the clear protective layer added to the top of each CD...that contains the magnetic strip to reduce pilferage.  If you flick your fingernail against one it sounds more like a 'thud' than a 'tink'.  I think the mechanical damping of the disc is reducing something inherent in a spinning disc to make playback more enjoyable.

I haven't tried the Herbie's on DVD-A yet.....it might yield a positive difference there. Have to check...but DVD-A is the only 'digital' format that is warm, inviting, more properly extended in both frequency extremes and 3 dimensional to begin with so I haven't found need for tarting/tweeeking it up 

edit: I also have tried the Audioprism Blacklight and one other (forgot the brand); both were thin, floppy plastic-like sheets...and both made CD's sound worse 

[PhilNYC]

I've tried the Audioprism Blacklight CD II.  Found that it made a difference on the sound, but not nearly enough of a difference for me to actually use it every time I listen to something...

[gstraley]

I recently purchased the Herbie's Grungebuster 2.2. An interesting product. Worked really good in my Cd player and not as good in a friends modified Marantz cd player. They are now $14.25. I noticed better air, ambiance and decay. Things sounded more "real and life like". I did feel that I gave up a little bit of dynamic attack tho. Most of the mats seem to be "a give and take" item to me. You get something but you have to give up something to get it. I will use the Grungebuster 2.2 on most of my cd's except for ones that I would miss the bottom end attack.
  In the Marantz player that I mentioned above the original Marigo thick black plastic disc worked best in that player. We tried the Marigo Cross bow in that Marantz and did not like it compared to the original Marigo disc. We actually found that the side labeled dvd sounded better on cd's than the side labeled cd.
  Another disc that can have improvements is a product called the DeMat. It is sold by Upscale Audio. We have tried this product in a number of cd players and transports. The product will work in some players and not in others. It will work in most Martanz cdp. In players that it will work in you can really obtain a significant improvement for $30.00. In players that will accept the DeMat we noticed that the Demat sounded better than the Grungebuster 2.2. Unfortunately my cdp will not accept the Demat. It will read the cd but when you go to play it it sounds like a skipping scratched record.

Gregg

[Steve]

Hi Sesha,

     I found that application of a CD optical enhancer works better. Only problem is that one has to apply it to all CDs. But once done, it lasts for months. (Caveat, I am a dealer.) However, I would not be recommending it if I did not believe in it. I must have the best audio in which to test and audition my components to customers.

[Dan Driscoll]

Jason is a wonderful person, I've met him, been to his home and taken part in a blind power cord test he set-up. But I doubt he can hear anything over 12KHz or maybe even 10KHz, so his comments about the original mat "darkening the high end" seem somewhat out of place. For comparison, what he considers "airy" I consider bright and harsh.

FTR, I do not consider myself a "Golden Ear" and I probably miss a lot of nuances and subtleties that trained listeners, including Jason, hear. But even at 44 I do still have full-range hearing, to over 18KHz. I have never heard any improvement from the use of a mat, a "clarifier" or a green pen. I have heard mats that caused the player to have problems with the disk, however.

[Sesha]

Thanks for your feedback, guys. They confirm my own take on 'enhancer' mats.

Human Media, I can understand why you junked them.  Who would want precious CDs destroyed by an enhancer?! gstraley, I, too, found that the mats work OK on my modded Marantz/Ah! Tjoeb, because their drawyer is spacious enough.  But I won't try it on the ultra slim drawyers of new machines.  With these, as the Highlander said: "There can only be one!"

Taking a cue from Steve, veering to CD enhancers in general, a couple of years ago, I got the urge to try whatever was available to enhance my collection.  So, in addition to the aforementioned Marigo Crossbow, I painstakingly painted the edges and inner groove of my CDs with AudioPrism's CD Stoplight green ink (triple layer).

It could have enhanced my older CDs a teeny bit, but I don't if they do much to improve new, better produced CDs in general and products like JVC XRCDs and such like in particular.

Then I pushed it to the limit by ordering from Russ Andrews, England, two products: ReVeel and ReleeS, which they dub "a unique double act" CD performance enhancers.

ReVeel is supposed to work by removing a mono-molecular layer of mould release agent (MRA - also known as foaming agent) from the disk surface. MRA is a supposed byproduct of the manufacturing process.  According to their product info: "Though thin and invisible to the eye, this layer is clearly visible and offensive to the laser light. It increases the focussing problems of the laser, degrading performance."

ReVeel is supposed to "effectively reduce distortion and harshness while improving information and detail, giving noticeable improvements in 3-dimensionality and bass depth." It can be used on LD, DVD CD-Rom, CD-R and Photo CD. "Additional benefits include improved picture definition and colour saturation.  It improves access and data transfer of computer disks. [They've measured.] It can help improve recording to CDs and playability from one machine to the other."

ReleeS is a spray-on liquid which, according to Russ Andrews, "brings a massive reduction in static charge on the surface of the CD, while leaving a smooth, even charge across the surface."  They assert that static charge degrade the sound quality, esp. when the charge is uneven.  Even treating the surface of equipment (eg. CD drawyer) and CD cases can make a difference by slowing the build up of static, they claim.

They say that with ReVeel, the level of improvement varies from disk to disk because the amount of MRA left on the surface during manufacture varies, while ReleeS "brings a consistently large improvement to performance because static is a unilteral problem."

The process is time consuming.  You need the patience of Job to treat a substantial collection.  For example, after treating disks with ReLees, you have to wash them in running water and dry them.  But with these British products, I did notice some improvements. 

[Jim N.]

I use the Marigo 3-D Stabilizer Tuning Mat. Hey, for all I know it's placebo effect (54 year old ears are easy to fool) but I prefer using it. I also use the Compact Dynamics CD Upgrade Kit (clear plastic adhesive covering for the top and a small dark blue ring that goes on the underside center area) that adds mass. I think it just makes it "spin" better. Since I burn everything to DVD-A who knows how truly effective they are but, again, to this old brain and ears it sounds better.

TCG- I picked up a few DVD-A discs. Neil Young's "Harvest", The Who's "Tommy" and Alan Parsons "I, Robot". "Harvest" on DVD-A is a big improvement over the CD. Just sounds more organic and spacious. You can hear the master tape saturation on the chorus of "Old Man". Oddly, the best sounding track is "Needle And The Damage Done". Neil sounds right there. The grungy, squonking guitar on "Alabama" and "Words" sounds quite authentic. The orchestration on "A Man Needs A Maid" has a lot of impact.

"Tommy" was good despite not being very well recorded (Moon's drums were so muffled). Still, it was quite dynamic and spacious. The original stereo master tapes were allegedly found in a vault and used for this. When the electric guitar entered on "Pinball Wizard" it made me jump even though I knew it was coming. Really leapt out of the left speaker. "Underture" was always my favorite track and the kettle drums made up for the regular kits lack of impact. It almost seemed like I was 16 again, listening to it through headphones on my genuine Cheapshiti stereo from 1968. It made these old years feel young again. Really took me back.

Yeah, I used the Marigo on them FWIW.

It's all in the mastering.

[TheChairGuy]

Sesha
Flick your finger against the side of an XRCD...it sounds different (more a 'thud' than a 'tink') than the vast majority of CD's already.  Could be that JVC, et al, already uses a more damped disc material so the benefits of a CD Mat (at least it's purported damping prowess) are negligible on them.  I don't think there is any magic to the Herbie's mat...I think it just damps the disc a bit, relieving a bit of jitter from the playback.

You're still left with the inherent weakness of compact disc recording technology...as Jim N. noted.

btw, for those contemplating the purchase of Herbie's mat, it does not work in my Pioneer 656 drawer....my only player that does DVD-A right now.  So, I can't compare it on DVD-A's if I wanted to. Poor Neil Young continues to warble, underdamped, and in pain on my DVD-A version (but I'm in far less pain than listening to it in CD) 

[Sesha]

Jim,

If "it's all in the mastering" as you say, what need for CD enhancers?!

Chairguy, I just did.  I held the CDs placing a finger through the middle and flicked a finger on the edges of an XRCD3 and a Blue Note CD.  Same sound! So I tend to think that the material maybe the same but the secret to enhanced sound is the mastering/processing. 

BTW, I'm curious about your preference for DVD-A over stereo.  Do you play your DVD-A in stereo mode or multichannel?  To my ears, stereo music sounds much better, authentic than multichannel.  (Unless, of course, you want the ambience of a live concert.)

P.S. I just looked at your system and now know that you are into 2-C, correct?

[TheChairGuy]

Sesha,

I play DVD-A in a crappy 2.1 video/audio system anchored by a 20 year old Onkyo (stereo) receiver, a $149.00 Pionner DVD/DVD-A/CD player and a 3 pc speaker ensemble (much akin to Bose Acoustimass).

Still, you can hear the organic nature of DVD-A come thru loud and clear.....versus my he-man audio rig with a $4500.00 CD-front end. DVD-A may sound better with properly implemented multi-channel set-up, but it sounds just fine in stereo.

I gotta' flick my finger again against a few more discs....it's been awhile...but, I thought that the couple of XRCD's sounded different than the others I have (I have a lot of Sony and Sony company releases as a friendof mine works at the Atlanta distribution center and I get advantageaous prices on Sony CD's).  But,  think the Blue Note label is a Sony (not at my collection right now)??