want to build a RA-8

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Berndt

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #20 on: 29 Aug 2006, 12:56 am »
I asked Al how much for a set of cabinets for my ra8s in the beautiful veneer that is on the HT8s he let me use.
The pictures don't really do the work justice.
He also mirrored the veneer on the fronts, it took me a while notice it.
Anyways he said that veneer is 1k a sheet, and it takes two sheets.
I personally like the rubberized truck bed liner finish.
Easy to fix and they blend in instead of sticking out being flashy and messing up your a/v...

man, these ra8 topics always go to 3pages...

winggee

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #21 on: 29 Aug 2006, 01:59 am »
So I'm thinking of just using this

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-031

dayton makes a self adhesive one as well, not sure which is easier or better to apply.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=261-610

I think this is the easiest way to get a decent quality finish. Not super high quality, but good.

what do you all think?

I really appreciate everyone's response to this

samplesj

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #22 on: 29 Aug 2006, 02:23 am »
YMMV, but I used a different color (pebbled black) of your second PE link on my first pass at the HT sub box and I really didn't like it.  The new box with flat black paint looks much nicer than the stick on did.  I found that it started peeling from where I razored it along the box edges.  It was also a nightmare to get on.  I actually threw away what was left a couple of weeks ago, just because I couldn't see myself ever using it again.

Does it have to be ultra high gloss?  Try a scrap piece of mdf with primer and brush paint or a spray can, just to see if you can live with that type of finish. 

Non-ultra high gloss is very easy.  I had plenty of white latex primer left over so I just put a couple of primer coats on to help soak the edges and then just brushed a couple of coats of left over flat black.  The nicer semi glossy AV/3s in the den were primered twice and then rattle can sprayed twice.  While perfect gloss is a lot of work, the first 75% is easy.

winggee

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #23 on: 29 Aug 2006, 02:34 am »
No it doesn't have to be super high gloss. that's why i picked those laminates, because they looked decent and seems like people use them. would adding glue in addition to the adhesive help? or did the look just not look good to you? how do you feel about the iron ons?

Berndt

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #24 on: 29 Aug 2006, 05:43 am »
Al should be back from his vacation soon, I believe he has some opinions 8)

winggee

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #25 on: 29 Aug 2006, 10:23 pm »
That sounds sweet, i have some questions for Al as well.
My friend offered some help if i wanted to paint it. he has a HVLP gun and a air compressor. he said he could help setup a makeshift booth outside under his deck. so that's an option right now. i don't mind spending couple weeks painting and sanding.

Berndt

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #26 on: 29 Aug 2006, 11:22 pm »
That sounds sweet, i have some questions for Al as well.
My friend offered some help if i wanted to paint it. he has a HVLP gun and a air compressor. he said he could help setup a makeshift booth outside under his deck. so that's an option right now. i don't mind spending couple weeks painting and sanding.

That is great you are enlisting your friends assistance. I was surprised you were using ease of finish and piano black in the same sentence.
OT, I like your websights, I made some camera rigs for skellington productions, stop motion animation, cnc controlled boom 4axis real time controller.
Bill

winggee

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #27 on: 31 Aug 2006, 11:48 pm »
Thanks Bill! I'm really intrested in how you made the CNC controlled boom.

Looks like my plans for the RA8 will be put on hold for a little while. i just got into a car accident this morning and pretty much totalled my car. I have to use the money i saved up for the speakers to get into another car. really sucks. especially since i was going to sell the car this weekend. I love it when life likes to throw wrenches into your plans. oh well still wont stop me from building these speakers. I'll probably build the cabinets first then get the kit.

Berndt

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #28 on: 1 Sep 2006, 01:08 am »
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, I hope you are ok?


OT alert

The camera rig moved on a 4'x4' cart with linear slides for rails.
There was an upright that was about 5' high with a parallelogram attached to the top that kept the camera mount level. The camera mount had 180 degrees of rotation on its z axis. We built two models, the first one was used in nightmare before xmas.
The second model enhanced rigidity. The geeks at the production company did the software we just built it. There were stepper motors driving the cart via a rack and pinion, the parallelogram was elevated by use of a ball screw on another linear actuator and the turntable under the camera was rotated with a direct drive stepper motor. Evrything had rotary encoders for reading motor angle in very fine increments. I'd have to stop by my old shop to get some pics.
Our in with Burton was a armature dude who is the best one I have seen.

btw, I guess it wasn't 4 axis, just 3.

RAW

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #29 on: 4 Sep 2006, 05:41 pm »
I asked Al how much for a set of cabinets for my ra8s in the beautiful veneer that is on the HT8s he let me use.
The pictures don't really do the work justice.
He also mirrored the veneer on the fronts, it took me a while notice it.
Anyways he said that veneer is 1k a sheet, and it takes two sheets.
I personally like the rubberized truck bed liner finish.
Easy to fix and they blend in instead of sticking out being flashy and messing up your a/v...

man, these ra8 topics always go to 3pages...

Bill.
The Figured Lacewood is $585.00 sheet not the 1k as you noted :scratch:
But does look good I think so.

Al should be back from his vacation soon, I believe he has some opinions 8)


Back into the full swing of things. After driving 5200k or 3232 miles.
 :icon_lol:

That sounds sweet, i have some questions for Al as well.
My friend offered some help if i wanted to paint it. he has a HVLP gun and a air compressor. he said he could help setup a makeshift booth outside under his deck. so that's an option right now. i don't mind spending couple weeks painting and sanding.

The painting of the MDF is not at all were the time is at all.
The finished look of the paint is all in the pre work.
The smoother the finish the more detail work you put into the pre work.
Sand ,fill, seal, sand , Fill ,seal ovr and over till you have the smooth flat cabinet.

Then spray a dark tint sealer coat on and look for more imperfections.
Repeat till you have the cabinet filled and ready.
Spray a few coats, find out you have more filling to to  :oops:

Fill sand feather in to the paint.

Spray again.
Repeat.
Then if you get dust or dirt into the finish you repeat the step over. :oops:

But for the DIY the finish you put on the speakers is all up to each of you
-how much time you have
-what you want them to look like when finished
-cost you can afford for finish,this applies to paint or veneer.
You can take a pair of cabinets to a finish shop drop them off and just pay the final bill for spraying the MDF any colour and some companies will do this for a good price others what top dollar as this is the way of telling you they do not want it.
Other spray companies  can be high due to the total finish that they will give you.
1-2 coats and a top coat is less money that 8-12 coats cutting and blocking between coats and then spraying and sanding and blocking a highgloss finish.
-do the speakers have to match other areas.

We match speakers to wall units ect with a customer suppied door or wall unit piece for a sample to match to.
This all adds a cost to the finished speakers we do but gives the customer the look that they want.

The love of the DIY you put your time and money as you want to into the the speakers :thumb:

Now we have not even talked about veneers.
As Bill noted above yes our HT8 demo pair (which will be at RMAF and sold at RMAF for a good deal) are finished in a exotic figured Lacewood. These sheets cost $585.00 for a 4X8 sheet.Not from GLveneer as we have a custom supplier in the lower states that makes matched sheets of what we find our customers want.

This site GLveneer shows a good gallery plus a price list of what exotics cost per sheet and can give you a good idea of what is available.
http://www.glveneer.com/gallery.html

Now GL is by far the best,only or cheapest to get veneer but does have a very good gallery and price list.
Tapeease is a very good spot for sheet veneer but does not have a gallery to show species colours ect.
http://www.tapeease.com/venershts.htm

Now Ebay.
Yes Ebay a good place for veneer also.Well at times not all the time.
You must look at the sellers history,where they ship to,how much shipping is.
And the big one what size the sheets of veneer is.
You can get some very good deals for some Maple,Cherry ect for say $25.00 for 100sqft but these sizes are of real wood veneer not backed with a paper at all.
Real wood veneer can be hard to apply and it also can be easy.This all depends on the process you use to apply the veneer.(another thread down the road)
Also if you purchase solid wood veneer un backed make sure you have a lot of over hang on each side.
This is to make sure if the veneer gets damaged in shipping or while you handle it  :o :oops: you have a little room for error.

Lets say you want veneer for the HT3 cabinet is 7" wide 40" tall 11" deep.
You want to look for veneer to have a full wrap veneer or sqaure edged cabinet.
Full wrap can only be done with paper backed veneer.
A sqaure edged cabinet or solid wood corner cabinets can use the flat real wood veneer.
Pros and cons paper is the easiest to use, real wood can break ,chip ect.But can be done we do it all the time.

Full wrap Paper Backed veneer you will need a single sheet of veneer.
-2 pieces cut to 42" across the sheet leaving you a 12" strip X 48"
-4 pieces cut 9" X 12"
These pieces will get you your 2 full wraps plus the top and bottom pieces.

Real wood veneer
-4 pieces (sides) 14" width x 44" long you can go shorter or longer but you must be careful not to break the veneer if shorter or narrower.
-4 pieces (front and backs) 10" width X 44" long
-4 pieces (top and bottoms) 10" width X 14"

This gives you a idea of what the big differences are in using paper backed and real wood just in material lists.And then add getting a species that you like in real wood wood is more ecomomical as it is not backed on paper.But this is also more labour as well as more of a risk for damaged sheets than paper backed.



Quote
Looks like my plans for the RA8 will be put on hold for a little while. i just got into a car accident this morning and pretty much totalled my car. I have to use the money i saved up for the speakers to get into another car. really sucks. especially since i was going to sell the car this weekend. I love it when life likes to throw wrenches into your plans. oh well still wont stop me from building these speakers. I'll probably build the cabinets first then get the kit.

All the best in your car accident.
The RA8 kits will always be here.
Long as you are ok that is all that counts.




winggee

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #30 on: 10 Oct 2006, 05:09 pm »
Looks like i'm in the swing of things again. Got another car, sold the wrecked car as a parts car.

As for my original RA8 plan, I'm still considering it. I'm actually forced to move in a few weeks and where im moving wont allow me to have large speakers there. According to the girlfriend in about 6-8 months we'll be moving into a townhouse or small house. That leaves me some time to save up some money and decide if I want to go true line array or not. I really love how it looks, it's very intimidating. :D I'm all about overkill but in a sense I have to be practical as well.

Most likely when we move out to a real place, I will be lucky if I get a 10'-15' room. That room will be the dedicated HT/music room. Screen size will be around 100" (~8ft wide). The screen size will be determined after I purchase speakers. I know speakers sound best when they are spaced from the side walls. I'm afraid this will be an issue as I want to maximize screen size.

I really want speakers that will sound amazing and would rather make a larger purchase now if it will last me 10 years. But if it's impractical and impossible to get a good sound in a such a small room there might not be a point in spending that kind of money yet.

What I really want in a speaker, is large soundstage, large sweet spot, warm and detailed sound. What I was always impressed with when walking into a high end shop is how detailed the sound is at very low levels. I'm not sure how to describe that feeling i'm after for, but I'm sure it has to do with the large soundstage and sound treatment.

Maybe you guys can point me in the right direction. I really enjoy building and that's why these kits appeal to me soo much. I really would like a line array for aesthetics and sound appeal. I just don't want to be getting something that I can't make sound right in room, where smaller speakers might do better.

Thanks for reading my long drawn out post, I just feel this forum is more friendly and welcoming versus other forums.

RAW

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #31 on: 10 Oct 2006, 07:31 pm »
Well that is some good news you have a new set of wheels.

As for the kits and which to build for the price the RA8 is really hard to touch for the money.
Sound stage and presence has a lot of width and depth.Those who have listened to them are stunned at the value a kit can be purchased for that much money. :icon_lol:

Stick to your guns build the RA8 for the money I can not even give you a kit in the price range that can come close to what the RA8 does so well.

winggee

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #32 on: 10 Oct 2006, 09:37 pm »
That's really re-assuring! Thanks Al

Even with my limited side wall space, how drastic will it change the sound? I may only be able to move it out ~12" from the side wall.

I do intend on treating the entire room though.

Is the Apex C a matching center? How about smaller surrounds? Since i'm unsure of what room I will be getting, I don't know how much space i'll have in the rear of the room and whether not it has to be wall mounted.
I could be tempted to buy 2 1/2 pairs and have ra8's all around instead.

Thanks!

klh

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #33 on: 10 Oct 2006, 10:45 pm »
I would think the RA8s would sound good even if they are only 12" from the wall. Of course they would sound better away from the walls, but if the walls immediately to the side were acoustically treated (with more than just foam) then they should still have a nice sound. The fact that the RA8s should outlive your room is another factor... when they are eventually placed in a larger room they would be able to shine even more. Like you said, you're not just purchasing for this townhouse, you're purchasing your pair of speakers for the next 10 or so years.

RAW

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #34 on: 11 Oct 2006, 02:05 am »
As Isaid the RA8 will last you for a long time down the road.Some people do not look long term only short term.Good move.

Now as for a center you can do as Bill did just lay a RA8 on its side for a center this would fill the front of your room .

As for the Apex C it would not match asfar as looks but the over all perspective range of the Apex C is a large center and with the ribbon you will have a similar sibalance balance to the RA8.But the SPL of the Apex C will require a little more power than the RA8.

Surrounds the RAV-1 are done and these would make the best surrounds to match the RA8.Great off axis response which is what you are looking for in a surround.


winggee

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Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #35 on: 11 Oct 2006, 02:27 pm »
I think I will just lay an RA8 on its side for the center. For now I think i'm going to go RA8's all around. Once I get the room and if I can't integrate the RA8's as surrounds, i'll buy a RAV1 kit at that time. Put the spare RA8's in the living room :D I really do enjoy multichannel music and I have to at least try to make it work.

I'm thinking I'm going to start building the boxes first, since I have have about 6 months to finish them. That way I can build the boxes while I save money for the kits.

How good do they sound with the rear ports sealed? I'm thinking if i have these for surrounds there is a good chance they will be butted up against the back wall.

Thanks!

RAW

Re: want to build a RA-8
« Reply #36 on: 13 Oct 2006, 02:41 pm »
The center you are looking at using the RA8 on its side would be the best math over all for the main RA8's.
Using the RA8 sealed or the RAV-1 sealed these will tune out at a F3 of 80hz and will match with most subs very well if you need to make the RA8 or RAV-1 sealed.