[Felipe]

Aksabuilers,

I had some experience in the past building AC power cords with exotic wires and connectors, though i never found conclusive evident sound differences when connecting them to the AKSA's or GK-1.
I gave up and never spent a buck extra with AC wiring, keeping my constructions as simple as possible, namely internal wiring ( no silver special ).

In DC mode - PSU to PCB or PCB to amps output or to speakers....thats a different story. I DO notice differences between cables, and there are inumerous posts about wich cables sound better/worse, not the point here.

Still regarding AC, last time i REBUILT my AKSA's with new cases, i went with the cheap simple stuff.
AC inlet (cheap) --> Relay with push button --> transformers

I always kept this "litle bug" on my mind if the RELAY isnt degrading the sound quality, thus offering some resistance in the midle of the AC mains and the trannies. I dont know what the relay connectors are made wether its copper or steel and i was told steel is very bad for audio applications. But this is AC...so....what gives ??
Though there are ppl saying there is a audible difference between a cheap AC inlet and a Gold plated one....

Sometimes i get the feeling in the OLDER case when i just connected the trannies to a switch button directly...i HAD more "grunt". But this could be my head...

What do you recon ? Do you ppl use sophisticated AC wiring ? Exotic AC inlet ?
Thanks

Filipe

[AKSAphile]

Hello Felipe

I always kept this "litle bug" on my mind if the RELAY isnt degrading the sound quality, thus offering some resistance in the midle of the AC mains and the trannies. I dont know what the relay connectors are made wether its copper or steel and i was told steel is very bad for audio applications. But this is AC...so....what gives ??


My opinion is that a good quality relay with at least 10A rating and with good faston conectors simply cannot affect the sound quality. There is no difference between good rocker switch and good relay when we are talking mains applications. The signal relays are different story.

The relay`s resistance is very small, BUT it is not the only one in your house mains wiring. Every mains socket, every switch, connectors and miles of electrical cables add their resistance. But the resistance can play only small part. There are of coarse also reactive components like inductivity and capacity.


Though there are ppl saying there is a audible difference between a cheap AC inlet and a Gold plated one.... What do you recon ? Do you ppl use sophisticated AC wiring ? Exotic AC inlet ?


The most efective improvement in sound, I got when I change 35 years old electrical wiring in my audio room and the most important: I did correct separate mains grounding. The old chunky fuses were replaced with resetable fuses and I made tight all screw connectors.

Bye

[andyr]

Aksabuilders,

Still regarding AC, last time i REBUILT my AKSA's with new cases, i went with the cheap simple stuff.
AC inlet (cheap) --> Relay with push button --> transformers

I always kept this "litle bug" on my mind if the RELAY isnt degrading the sound quality, thus offering some resistance in the midle of the AC mains and the trannies. I dont know what the relay connectors are made whether it's copper or steel and i was told steel is very bad for audio applications. But this is AC...so....what gives ??
Though there are ppl saying there is a audible difference between a cheap AC inlet and a Gold plated one....

Sometimes i get the feeling in the OLDER case when i just connected the trannies to a switch button directly...i HAD more "grunt". But this could be my head...

What do you recon ? Do you ppl use sophisticated AC wiring ? Exotic AC inlet ?
Thanks

Filipe

Hi Filipe,

Haha ... that "little bug" inside your head is pregnant and nesting ... soon you'll have a thousand "little bugs" eating away at your thought process!!  

Every contact degrades the sound IMO ... whether it's AC mains or signal.  It's just something one has to live with ... but you minimise the number of contacts!!    I think the KISS principle is relevant here (I'll spell it out for you, as I believe you're not a native English speaker?  "Keep It Simple, Stupid!"   )

I presume you used a relay because you could then have a simple switch on the front panel yet keep the AC wiring to the back panel?    Why not simply put a normal AC mains switch (copper contacts, certainly, but gold-plated "audio jewellery" if you wish) on the back panel, so there's no need to run the AC mains wires across the case?

Better still, use a high-amp-rated DPDT mains switch so you can "invert" the AC mains to see which orientation delivers the best sound to your AKSA.  If you're suspicious of how this might affect things, go have a look here:
www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/449743.html

And with respect to the IEC mains inlet panel-mount plug ... maybe different plugs (well, you might call them "sockets" but actually they're male as they have tags projecting outwards, so they're called "plugs"!!   ) affect the sound?    I have read on various Net forums that silver-plated IEC plugs sound better than the standard nickel plated IEC plugs (I seem to remember the late-lamented Bob Crump said this a few years ago?) ... so I use these.  In fact, bought from here:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/ac_products.html

... they're not a great deal more than the "normal" IEC plugs from my local RS Components shop!  I also use the Acme Labs panel-mount fuse holders.

Regards,

Andy

[Geoff-AU]

The idea of plugging a gold plated connector into 30 year old house wiring and even older cables on the street is amusing to me.  It would be like spending $100 on oil to put in your Datsun 120Y.

But at the end of the day, i guess if you really love your 120Y then it will seem all the better for it! 

[andyr]

The idea of plugging a gold plated connector into 30 year old house wiring and even older cables on the street is amusing to me.  It would be like spending $100 on oil to put in your Datsun 120Y.

But at the end of the day, i guess if you really love your 120Y then it will seem all the better for it! 

Valid point, Geoff ... but then:

*  if you live in a house with 30-year old wiring and even older cables in the street, maybe you should accept that a Bose stereo system is about as good as you'll ever get it?  Waste of money to buy an AKSA?   

*  if you happen to have a Datsun 120Y then there's no harm in "improving it" if you love driving but can't afford an Audi!

I live in a 20-yr old house I had built ... but, yes, the street wires in Prahran are probably a lot older than that!  But current house wiring standards are in fact no better than that which I specified 20 years ago.  My only problem is that I didn't know as much about mains wiring as I do know, or I would've specified 100 amp, 2-phase wiring in from the street-pole.

By your argument, it's not worth going from an AKSA to an N+ if you live in this mythical "30-year old house" ... as really the only difference is a few "special" BG caps instead of the standard ones.

Regards,

Andy

[AKSAphile]

Here is good solution:http://www.psaudio.com/products/p1000.asp

Better than the most expensive power cable on earth

[Felipe]

Geoff,

You got just the idea i had in mind....if starting from the street we can have : switches, power trannies, relays at our power board, wiring through house, parallell connections to the same switch being heaters, lamps or even refrigerators, then extension power cords to electronic gear... WHAT WILL A GOLD PLATED INLET PLUG DO ????? It surely wont absorve noise !!

Andy,

I really didnt complicate my connections much and i DO think i kept the KISS rule rather nicely. I have a push button switch that is only momentarly used to turn on the relay - so the current to the trannies never flows through the push button.
Reversion of phase doesnt to "squat" to sound, tried it....no difference heard.
I dont think the DPDT relay would result in "better sound" than the one i have. It really is just a swtich with contacts. OF course the simple switch button at the back aproach is better and cleaner...but it really isnt very neat or pratical is it ?

And by the way, dont miss-interpretate Geoff when he talks about house wiring, it is not the same as changing caps flavor in the AKSA. We are still talking about AC wiring here....not transient response or load currents.

[Geoff-AU]

*  if you live in a house with 30-year old wiring and even older cables in the street, maybe you should accept that a Bose stereo system
is about as good as you'll ever get it?  Waste of money to buy an AKSA?   

Absolutely, you are right.  You can't polish a turd, garbage in garbage out etc.  Might as well assault my ears because I have old house wiring eh? 

*  if you happen to have a Datsun 120Y then there's no harm in "improving it" if you love driving but can't afford an Audi!

You'd be far better off saving for an Audi than pouring liquid gold into a 120Y.  But if "improving" it gives you more pleasure than dedicated effort to save money for several years then have at it   (I just spent $200 on oils for my car!).

By your argument, it's not worth going from an AKSA to an N+ if you live in this mythical "30-year old house" ... as really the only difference is a few "special" BG caps instead of the standard ones.

Objects in the signal path have a significant capacity to alter the amplifier's output.  Objects that are part of the power supply do not, assuming the amp and power supply are well designed.  There's a reason why ceramic caps aren't used in the signal path, however they ARE brilliant at bypassing op-amps and preventing oscillation.

Gold is actually only 65% as conductive as copper, so straight away you're sticking in a bottleneck.  Add to that, when you stick 2 different metals together you get galvanic corrosion over time.  There's 0.35V difference in the anodic index of the two metals, and a maximum of 0.25V is recommended for non temperature/humidity controlled areas.  So while the gold won't corrode, the copper probably will.  You'd be better off with fresh copper!

[andyr]

Objects in the signal path have a significant capacity to alter the amplifier's output.  Objects that are part of the power supply do not, assuming the amp and power supply are well designed.  There's a reason why ceramic caps aren't used in the signal path, however they ARE brilliant at bypassing op-amps and preventing oscillation.

Yes, Geoff,

Except that one of the components of the AKSA 'N' or 'N+' upgrades (sorry, I forget which) is new, higher-spec  Nichicon caps in the PS ... ie. objects that are part of the power supply DO have a significant ability to alter the amplifier's output.

Regards,

Andy

[andyr]

Gold is actually only 65% as conductive as copper, so straight away you're sticking in a bottleneck.

The only reason for introducing gold into the equation is that gold-plated copper does not oxidise/tarnish ... whereas plain copper does.  Untarnished metal is better for signal transmission than tarnished metal.

Regards,

Andy

[Felipe]

Gold is actually only 65% as conductive as copper, so straight away you're sticking in a bottleneck.

The only reason for introducing gold into the equation is that gold-plated copper does not oxidise/tarnish ... whereas plain copper does.  Untarnished metal is better for signal transmission than tarnished metal.

Regards,

Andy

Does that mean you "MUST" use gold plated connectors inside your AKSA ?
Most connectors i use to plug the output or rail voltage input are Tin plated copper. This wont tarnish....

Better still...OFC copper should always be better than gold plated copper !!

[andyr]

Does that mean you "MUST" use gold plated connectors inside your AKSA ?
Most connectors i use to plug the output or rail voltage input are Tin plated copper. This wont tarnish....

Better still...OFC copper should always be better than gold plated copper !!

Hi Felipe,

Well, you can use what you like!     For instance, I don't use stranded wire for ICs, speaker wire or inside AKSAs ... but most people are not so picky (call it "fetishistic" if you must!    ).  That big yellow cap that Hugh supplies with GK-1s (AuriCap?) has stranded leads, so I used a RelCap instead.

From what I have read over the years (and I am not one for doing lengthy comparative experiments), tin plated copper or nickel plated copper "sounds" worse than clean bare copper ... but of course "clean" copper doesn't stay clean for long.  Gold plating is therefore used to stop the surface tarnishing (or you simply cover the whole copper connector with solder!).  Silver plating is also better than tin or nickel and, although silver also tarnishes with exposure to air, I understand the silver oxidation layer is more conductive than with copper, so degrades the sound less.

I use Acme Labs silver plated IEC sockets and fuse holders, not standard commercial stuff from RS Components etc., because these are nickel plated.

Likewise brass sounds worse than copper - so for speaker connections I use only gold-plated copper spades or banana plugs, not gold plated brass.

The PCB power connectors which Hugh supplies are probably tin plated brass but that's all that's available - but I don't use connectors for these ... I solder the power wires.  I used to use gold-plated pins for signal connections because I thought the ones Hugh supplied were tin plated ... now I know Hugh's are silver plated, I'll probably use them in future!   

Regards,

Andy

[Geoff-AU]

The only reason for introducing gold into the equation is that gold-plated copper does not oxidise/tarnish ... whereas plain copper does.

You're wasting your time unless you fit a gold plated socket wall socket though.  See my comment about galvanic corrosion.

on RCAs I can understand because both plug and socket are gold plated, which prevents corrosion.  The current levels are also low.  But not on mains stuff. You'd be better off "exercising" the plug to expose fresh copper, if you're worried about it.

[andyr]

You're wasting your time unless you fit a gold plated socket wall socket though.  See my comment about galvanic corrosion.

on RCAs I can understand because both plug and socket are gold plated, which prevents corrosion.  The current levels are also low.  But not on mains stuff. You'd be better off "exercising" the plug to expose fresh copper, if you're worried about it.

Hi Geoff,

I absolutely agree with you ... when I mentioned gold plating I wasn't thinking of power plug/wall socket connectors.  I agree power connectors should be copper - and certainly not nickel-plated copper.

However, taking this further, the more you do to your mains supply (including thicker wires in from the street and the circuit breaker box), the more your system will love you for it ... and deliver better sound in return!   

Regards,

Andy

[kyrill]

Good
to find interest in the quality of the AC  network. AC is the building block of the current that reach the speakers to trigger them to make music or in a sense the power supply is the basic important thing, as the AKSA/LF,steered by the InterConnect signal, only modulates the power supply

So what do you audiophile AKSA lovers do to help the power supply in protecting PCB music factory from the electronic dirt and nasties and gremlins and insurgents and other little demons from hell who accompany the AC current from the wall to do a mass attack on the factory?

 
kyrill

[andyr]

Good   to find interest in the quality of the AC network. AC is the building block of the current that reaches the speakers to trigger them to make music or in a sense the power supply is the basic important thing, as the AKSA/LF - steered by the InterConnect signal - only modulates the power supply.

So what do you audiophile AKSA lovers do to help the power supply in protecting PCB music factory from the electronic dirt and nasties and gremlins and insurgents and other little demons from hell who accompany the AC current from the wall to do a mass attack on the factory?

 
kyrill

Hi Kyrill,

C'mon, now ... AKSA lovers are pre-eminent audiophiles!!     We are interested in anything which improves the sound of our AKSA electronics ... special caps, special resistors, particular power transformers, wires, cases made from wood rather than steel ... etc!! 

So AC mains power is just another issue we are interested in! 

IMO, there are 2 issues at play here:
1. How do you optimise the power delivery within the house, and
2. How do you "clean up" the power which enters your house.

But firstly, you have to understand that here in God's own country ... the AC power is pure!    In Europe, you need to protect yourself!    So:

* How do you optimise power delivery within the house?

I've basically just been through this exercise as part of my recent house renovations.  So here is my take on this:

1. You install the biggest amp input line you can from the street.  In Oz, normal street supply is 80 amps but higher amps are available.  But, generally this must be done at the time you build your house because you can't just install a 100 amp wire in from the street to the fuse on the outside of your house ... if the wire behind the wall to your "Consumer Unit" is only 80amps!! 

2. You use a particular brand of CU and MCBs.  There is a fellow named Roy Riches in the UK who is particularly passionate about AC supply (he posts on Pink Fish Media Forum).  So much so that he spent months listening to his system when he had 6 different CUs installed sequentially in his house ... for 6 weeks each brand of CU (to give them time to run in)!   

Without dismissing his research with "HTF did he remember 6 months ago what his system sounded like with the first CU?" (I guess he used notes on how particular tracks sounded?), it does sound reasonable to me that different mfrs use different grades of metal in their MCBs and so will sound different.  So I purchased from him the brand of MCB and RCD which he said sounded the best.
NOTE1: Roy buys them wholesale and passes them on to you at cost (he emails you his invoice) ... so he is not exploiting his believers for financial gain!
NOTE2: Even though these are British-made MCBs/RCDs, they are acceptable under Oz electrical standards - well Victorian, anyway! 

3. For the ultimate sonics, you then have a separate mains spur from the CU to each f'ing component.  I'm afraid I couldn't organise this but I now have 2 x 30amp circuits feeding my sources (one for analogue - GK-1 and phono stage - and one for digital), as well as a 30amp circuit feeding my 6 x AKSA monoblocks!    The ultimate situation would've involved me in 6x30amp circuits to feed my 6 AKSA monolocks! 

4.  It is most important that all your circuits are the same length ... because if not, there will be earth potential differences in each circuit ... which will exacerbate the noise floor.

* How do you "clean up" the power which enters the house?

The ultimate benefit from the above is still dependent on the AC power being "pure"!     I have zero experience with any power conditioners but, AIUI, this seems to be a matter of experimentation because every hifi component will respond differently to having a power conditioner in front of it.

You can use balanced power transformers ... power inverters (AC -->  DC --> AC again) ... and several other devices.  All I have been able to ascertain is:
* power amps typically don't like anything between them and the wall socket.  "Anything" makes them sound constricted.
* some source components like having an isolating transformer between them and the wall socket.
* some source components respond well to having a balanced mains supply (like the "Felicia" in the "AudioCircle Lab Forum").  However, it seems that the GK-1 was less improved by a Felicia than other components ... due, presumably, to the great regulated power supply which Hugh has built into the GK-1!!??    It remains to be seen whether the "ultimate" AKSA/LF amp has a separate regulated PS for the driver stage (which is able to have a Felicia in front of it!) with an output PS which is driven straight from the wall! 

Regards,

Andy

[kyrill]

hi Andy

wow almost an article

I use a
1) a balanced 3,2 Kilo watt transformer heavy(80 kilo, from a recording studio) ) and humms as hell. I also feel bad vibrations coming from it.
I have put it outside the house but directly to the wall.So its connection to the audio setup is only 1.5 mtr It is intertwined heavy copper wire specially made. common mode noise rejection is its principle of the wire as well as the transformer
2) 3 Blue circle The BC86MK III provides a convenient and effective solution for the reduction or elimination of power line noise.
3) Chang Lightspeed line filter . nice things as it works. It separates digital from analogue
4) not yet bought PS Audio Noise Harvester http://www.stereotimes.com/acc041007.shtml
5) all wires are shielded or intertwined (common mode rejection) to a separate ground wire connected to a copper pipe 12 feet in the (wet) Dutch ground. I can easily light a lamp of 250 watts between hot and this ground wire.!  Surprising idea that thru the real earth of my garden there is an electrical connection to the electricity plant  100 miles further away
I will investigate further and maybe buy another machine to clean the mean  little insurgents unseen. ehh unheard


The total effect is silence and much more precise 3D focus of placement but also timbre or "acoustic .texture",  room and space are more "hearable"
Without it is hard to have the magic. ( magic to me is the setup disappears and i become a witness of the show, as if i stepped into an invisible time machine and i am "there" in the past among the audience

[ctviggen]

Is your system 120 volts or 220 volts?  In the U.S., we have a 120V/240V system, and we ground (to earth ground; i.e., real "earth" like dirt) all wires in the house to a single earth ground.  If you have multiple earth grounds, they have to be connected using #6 or lower gauge wire.  If you don't do this, you'll have a ground loop.  In our system, "hot" (red or black; typically black) is one phase of 120V (so 240V uses two hots), "neutral" (white) is grounded to the earth ground, and ground (no covering, so copper colored) is also grounded to earth ground. 

[kyrill]

yes normally we have 230 volts to "hot" relative to "neutral"  ground is actually "earth"

with balanced I got +115 volts and -115 volts...after the balanced  i got 230 V total  the neutral f(x) disappeared . GRND is still there but the electicity from mains does not provide grnd. every house has its own grnd. it is just a big open wire connected tot the steel/iron pipes from the water pipes.

I have a separate copper pipe one inch thick in 11 feet into the grnd, one feet is actually above earth in my front garden and use that for my shieldings

what do you do to fight the "insurgents" ?

[AKSA]

This whole business about AC line conditioning is very diffuse and not well understood. 
Essentially I've found two issues;  gremlins on the line from other appliances switching in and out, particularly large AC consumers, and harmonic distortion on the waveform which is the result of overloading the distribution network.  On dirty lines, common in many countries, there can be up to 8% distortion, which normally takes the form of peak clipping, which of course creates a spray of Fourier artefacts which can find their way well into the audio spectrum.

I don't pretend to know how to get around all these problems.  However, here's a couple of tips:

1.  Use separate transformers for each channel, as I routinely do on the AKSA, Lifeforce and GK1/Swift.   Seems to enhance imaging.
2.  Try to keep the AC line to the mains transformer outside the house isolated and direct. 
3.  Move to an electrically clean location.   This is inconvenient, but industrial areas are generally quite noisy.
4.  Listen late at night, into the early morning, when all electrical demand moderates.

Obviously, some of these are not practical and this puts clear emphasis on power conditioning, particularly on lower voltage mains where current spikes are much larger and consequent degradation is more pronounced.  For more on power conditioners, look at the lab circle, where Occam has done a lot of very successful work on this very issue, much of it with the Lifeforce 100, moreover.  He has strongly influenced me with the design of the Squeezebox power supply, which uses a beefy common mode choke, which is very effective.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Hugh  (from Mt Gambier, South Australia)