Force XL / Titan XL for music-only system

NewBuyer · « **on:** 21 Aug 2006, 10:14 pm »

Hi ACI and ACI fans,
Just wanting clarification please about the intended ideal applications of these two specific subwoofers. It appears they each use the same amp and driver, but the Force page describes use of "special circuitry" in that model. What specifically is this difference in circuitry? Also, on the ACI website descriptions, it seems the music application is a bit more highly emphasized for the Titan, and HT for the Force. So in a music-only system in a medium-sized room, what does ACI recommend - is one better suited for music than the other? Thanks in advance for any replies...

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Aug 2006, 11:41 pm »

Sounds like we need to clarify some of our presentation on our website. Fact is, the electronics are the same with of course slightly different adjustments for each model. The sound is also identical. The ONLY differences are size and output. The larger Titan XL can simply play louder. . . they both sound terrific with HT and music. So the only question is how much output you need. Mid-sized room can mean so many things and people's expectations of how loud they want to go vary greatly. Both will sound super, the Titan XL will simply go to higher levels. So we can best advise you, let us know:

-how how large your room is
-is it open to other rooms or closed
-other equipment used
-main speakers
-types of music
-how loud do you play?

NewBuyer · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Aug 2006, 04:38 am »

Hey, thanks for the reply! I do think the ACI website is very nicely done, I am probably just reading too much into things. We have a room that is approximately 12' by 14' that is open to another room. We have very nice 2-channel hifi electronics, and some excellent bookshelf speakers that are rated down to the low 40's. Their low-end performance is simply not as authoritative as a good sub however! So we are looking for a "music-lovers" sub, to augment the speakers and grab those lower notes and octaves. After reading the advice on this forum, we will most likely be using the ACI high-pass filters at the stereo amp inputs. We mostly listen to modern/acoustic music, some bluegrass, some blues and light rock. We *very rarely* listen at what most consider loud levels. No party-level volumes here, at least not yet! Lastly, we will most likely be later purchasing a second matching sub, so we can have one dedicated to each channel (each sitting next to a bookshelf speaker). That will probably take care of any higher-output needs. We are entirely concerned with music quality, and are not at all into the boomy/distorted sound of the mass-produced subwoofers. If the Force XL would meet our needs, this would save us some money we could then reinvest into the second matching sub.

Thanks for reading this, and for helping me with these questions...

JAMn Joe · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Aug 2006, 07:55 am »

Hi NewBuyer,

I think you will find the Force XL to more than meet your requirements, in fact I'm not sure you will feel that getting a second sub is necessary once you put the Force XL in your system.

If you can possibly place the XL between your speakers you should get a perfect balance of bass for both speakers. Based on what you state your listening preference and habits are you will probably only have the bass on a very low volume setting to blend with your speakers. For a small sub the Force XL can put out a lot of sound.

In my demo room which is 16'x14'x8' one Force XL is more than enough and I would be overloading the room if I went to a bigger unit unless I had the levels set fairly low. In a smaller room using the ACI Sapphire XL speakers a sub is not even required unless you to play low organ notes.

Mike offers a generous return policy so I would highly encourage you to take the plunge and try a Force XL out. Just be prepared to keep it once you get it in your system

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Aug 2006, 02:21 pm »

I agree with Joe . . . a single Force XL will do a great job for you, plenty of clean, deep output for your needs. Get one now, integrate it, enjoy it. You can add a second XL later for true-stereo bass. It's easier to start with one . . .

NewBuyer · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Aug 2006, 05:00 am »

Thanks for the help and advice! Although our speakers go semi-low now, the new bass authority from adding a great sub to our system is going to be fun. I really like the steep 24db/octave slope spec on the ACI subs too. Generally speaking, if one is using the ACI 85-Hz high-pass filters at the stereo amp (which are 6db/octave I believe) and also using the ACI Force XL sub, would it be "theoretically correct" to set the sub's crossover dial at 80 Hz?

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Aug 2006, 02:58 pm »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 23 Aug 2006, 05:00 am

Thanks for the help and advice! Although our speakers go semi-low now, the new bass authority from adding a great sub to our system is going to be fun. I really like the steep 24db/octave slope spec on the ACI subs too. Generally speaking, if one is using the ACI 85-Hz high-pass filters at the stereo amp (which are 6db/octave I believe) and also using the ACI Force XL sub, would it be "theoretically correct" to set the sub's crossover dial at 80 Hz?

Yes, that would be a good starting point. Depending on the room and placement, the best match might be anywhere from 60Hz or lower, on up to 90Hz or so. You'll know by listening and or testing.

DSK · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Aug 2006, 03:49 am »

Mike, when integrating Force XL and Sapphire XL's (with ports stuffed) do you recommend using the ACI 85hz HPF, 65hz HPF, or running the Sapphire XL's full range? Is room size a factor?

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Aug 2006, 01:27 pm »

Quote from: DSK on 24 Aug 2006, 03:49 am

Mike, when integrating Force XL and Sapphire XL's (with ports stuffed) do you recommend using the ACI 85hz HPF, 65hz HPF, or running the Sapphire XL's full range? Is room size a factor?

If using the filters I recommend the 85Hz. I always suggest to try it both ways. It is SO room and system dependent. In most setups, both ways will work well but one or the other will really lock in and it will be as though you have a pair of monitors that are doing 20Hz on up. Done right, and you simply can't tell there is a subwoofer in the system other than the range, ambience, and weight added.

NewBuyer · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Aug 2006, 10:16 pm »

Quote from: Mike Dzurko on 21 Aug 2006, 11:41 pm

...the electronics are the same with of course slightly different adjustments for each model...

Just wondering please: What (specific) types of different adjustments are referred to here?
[Edit: I hope the question is not too naive, but curiosity forces me to ask...]

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Aug 2006, 12:15 am »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 24 Aug 2006, 10:16 pm

Quote from: Mike Dzurko on 21 Aug 2006, 11:41 pm
...the electronics are the same with of course slightly different adjustments for each model...

Just wondering please: What (specific) types of different adjustments are referred to here?
[Edit: I hope the question is not too naive, but curiosity forces me to ask...]

Not a naive question at all The Force XL and Titan XL share exactly the same power amp and platform. The pre-amp section contains EQ and limiting functions that are specifically tuned to either the 10" driver and cabinet size of the Force XL or the 12" driver and cabinet size of the Titan XL. This tuning is accomplished with either a Force XL or Titan XL daughter board that we plug into the preamp during the build stage. This level of amplifier-driver-cabinet optimization is quite specific and allows us to every last bit of performance out of these combinations.

NewBuyer · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Sep 2006, 01:33 am »

Well I just wanted to let everybody know that we took the plunge and bought a Force XL.

We have been enjoying it thoroughly now for many weeks. I am continually astonished at the incredible "musicality" of this sub, as well as its superb build quality and beautiful design. Fits in perfectly with the living room decor, and my wife really appreciates this aspect (as do I).

The Force XL is simply amazing in its accuracy and authority in those low octaves. As others advised in this thread, a single Force XL has plenty of output, in fact it seems to do its job efortlessly and with more speed, tightness, and undistorted accuracy than I have ever before experienced from a sub.

In fact, after hearing the Force XL in my system, I now realize (and this is both embarassingly honest and personally very surprising) that I really had not properly imagined what this kind of accurace sub reinforcement would sound like in my system. We also auditioned several other notably excellent subs, some from extremely well regarded manufacturers - but the Force XL is really in a completely different league. Until I heard the Force XL in my system, I guess that I just didn't have the concept of what this kind of good bass foundation in music really sounded like, and how essential these properly reproduced lower octaves are to the overall music listening experience.

I wanted to include this info for everyone who reads this thread. Thank you Mike Dzurko and Joe-from-JAM'n Audio for your help, and thank you again Mike for making this absolutely incredible product. This is a truly a no-regrets audio purchase, and easily one of the best bang-for-buck items I've ever come across in audio. Makes me think all of your products must be in this category Mike!

P.S. - The high-pass filters are completely transparent too, just like everyone around here says. Outstanding!

JAMn Joe · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Sep 2006, 02:18 pm »

NewBuyer,

Congratulations on your new Force XL sub, may you have many long enjoyable hours of musical bliss! aa

Per your quote, "Makes me think all of your products must be in this category Mike!". Your absolutely right, the Force XL is just one of many amazing products in the ACI line-up of speakers and subs.

I'm glad I was able to answer some of your questions and point you in a good direction.

Take care and enjoy!

Night_Train · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Sep 2006, 03:01 pm »

"Unleash the last of the Titans; release the Kraken!!!"

NewBuyer · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Sep 2006, 10:14 pm »

P.S. Mike, were speaker level converters supposed to have been included with the Force XL?

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Sep 2006, 12:43 am »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 24 Sep 2006, 10:14 pm

P.S. Mike, were speaker level converters supposed to have been included with the Force XL?

They sure were, if you didn't get them . . . heads will roll . . . . fury will be unleashed . . . actually, just email me your info or give the office a call and they will be on the way ASAP!