[Audioexcels]

This review will not be anywhere near a complete, thorough, or concise review.  I have lived with these speakers for about 2? months now.  But in this time, I have not owned a serious power amplifier but for 1 day. Well, I bought what I felt would be the last amp for a good long time and suddenly found a BEAUTIFUL UCD400 amp with great components and housing.  So off went the VERY short term Metaxas and in came the...wait...FedEx LOST the Hypex.  Thankfully I didn't insure it anywhere near its worth and after countless phone calls I told them I didn't care how much I would file a claim for, I wanted the amp as if it was gold.  But at least I did insure it where I didn't lose too much money over it.  BUT, it has forced me financially to listen to underpowered amps that are decent-exceptional.  My front end is as good as it gets. So basically my money went towards the speaker and front end/cables purchase leaving me a little shy at the moment to get an amp capable of being used with what I consider to be as good of a sound that you can have bar none.

About the speakers and the underpowered amp listening I have been doing for about 2 months now.  There is perhaps one thing and one thing alone that a person needs to have regardless of anything, and that is listening ability.  What I mean by this is the inability to be fatigued by the sound.  Even with mediocre amps and some very good, but still way too underpowered amps, I can literally sit all day long listening.  There is never a moment I feel I need to stop listening.  The speakers sound so "right", I am spoiled by them.  I think, what can I do next, what can I do...but there's nothing but getting more power so I can REALLY hear them.

To describe the sound in very few words:

1) VERY balanced.
2) The ability to play to loud SPL levels=DYNAMIC (for the one day I had good power to them, it was atrociously loud but effortless).
3) Reveals all the musical information.
4) Makes you not consider upgrading or wondering what else is better or can be done to make the sound better.
5) The very best sound I have ever experienced, period.

Someone asked for a comparison to the Maggies.  I have listened to the Maggie 3.6R's with excellent electronics and they throw a massive soundstage I cannot recognize or understand.  The Ronin, by contrast has an almost monitor/exact like imaging but with an openness/spaciousness that is breathtaking. The primarly difference between the Maggies and Ronins is the dynamic capacity of the Ronin over the Maggies.  The Maggies strain no matter how many Kwts you put into them.  The Ronins, on the other hand, can get "WAY" louder even with underpowered electronics.  Another primary sound difference is the Maggie is almost seductive and delicious...it's a real treat how beautifully lyrical that ribbon can sound as it resonates, especially on vocals.  The Ronins by contrast give a much more powerful/direct sound without sounding forward/in your face.  It also sounds much more convincing not by way of dynamic range, but as an entirety/whole speaker sound.  The Maggie seems to lack a LOT of what I needed from a speaker.  But what the Maggies do have, is so beautiful that most speakers with the things the Maggies do not have sound worst in the end due to that ability for the Maggies to let you just listen like the Ronins do.  And what seperates the Maggies from the Ronin are these things I needed from another speaker that would still have the enjoyment factor from the Maggies.  The Ronin is not only that speaker, but it clearly puts the Maggies to shame IF one speaker is your end goal.  That ribbon will still do things the Ronin cannot, but unless you have a bunch of different speakers/rooms that each impart a certain sound you like that allow you to come home and go to your room of mood choice, the Ronin is the only speaker of a LOT that I have heard that can come closest to bringing all the technologies of speaker choices together into one.

Another speaker I would like to compare these to would be the Linkwitz Orions, a similar, yet also very different design.  Due to its similarities of being a three way open baffle from at least 250hz on up, and using very similar Seas drivers (same midbass, similar enough sounding dome), it seems to be a speaker worthy of a comparion.  I'll make this one very short and simple.  What the Orions do not have, the Ronins do.  Plain and simply, the Orion bass, very good to say the least, cannot handle high pressure SPL.  The Ronin can, which it displayed brilliantly when I had the better powering amp running them for the one evening. Even with the lower powered amps, it is able to produce greater SPL than the Orions can.  But how is the soundquality?  I need to really hear them side by side, but for my listening habits, I don't see why I would think the bass is better or even equal to the Ronin bass because of what I mentioned earlier in how the Ronins produce a very direct (monitor like...such a bad way to describe these musical transducers but it's all I can think up right now) sound which necessitates the bass alignment to the coaxially firing midbass/treble unit (it's a matter of design differences which play the part here).  The midrange/treble part are very very different in nature, again, likely due to the design differences.  The Orions sound "dead" on top, as if someone sliced the sound on the top part. This isn't a bad thing, but for me, it lends to a lifeless sound when comparing to the Ronins.  Funny thing is is this was a complaint I had with the Orions, though I did and still consider them one of the best speakers alive. The last main difference with the Orions and Ronin is the Ronin plain and simply boogies on a LOT HARDER.  If you want to mostly critique/analyze a speaker while living with the limitations of the dead top end and SPL limited Orions are your ticket.  Sure, there's boogy factor in them without a doubt, but until you hear the Ronin, I regard the Orion as more of an analytical device that is a lot more boring/non-musical.  But then one must have to ask, since there's so much boogy factor in the Ronin, how can one consider them an accurate transducer that you analyze like the Orions?  Well, I didn't mention you can't analyze them now did I?  The Ronin is, as Linkwitz would put it, true to the source.  So if you want to sit and analyze the speakers, do so all day long because they will give all of your recordings exactly the information on them and you can analyze all day long.  But the end result with the Ronin is becoming spoiled where analysis becomes meshed into an artform of simply sitting back and wondering how sound can ever get any better with all the compromises we have to deal with.  On a last note with the Orion/Ronin comparison, the Orions become flatter and flatter the further away you move from them.  They have basically a couple of sweet spots.  The Ronin, meanwhile, have many sweet spots.  I have listened as close as 3ft away as far back as 18 or so feet.  It's a different sound experience in each place, and I find myself favoring different places of listening depending on the time.  So rather than being limited to the placement vs. distance, you can enjoy many different sitting positions.

Well,

This turned out to be a lot more than I intended.  It brings tears to my eyes that I am able to have something that is a dream for me.  I have been the worst critic on every lowest-highest end systems I have heard, my own included, and to finally have nothing but my own acceptance that this is the best two channel sound can produce in spades, is a revelation.

I wish anyone that may not even have the best front end, but has good solid power for driving them, to give give the Ronin an audition OR outright buy them.  I purchased them UNHEARD.  I got an instinct that this was just it, that this was going to be "the one".  And until/unless driver technology can "clearly" surpass the offerings in this day of age, I will consider the Ronin the very best speaker.

NOTES: This review is longer than intended, yet still way too short.  I could "easily" write pages and pages of so much analysis and experience in such a short time of listening, and without a good power amp.  My writing is my own experience.  It is not one that is like getting some new amp and it's a love type relationship until I cheat on her with a different power amp.  As I say, until driver technology has clearly surpassed today's offerings, these speakers will never leave me.  Also regarding "my experience"...it is my own and what I may hear is not what another may hear.

****To all Maggie 3.6R and Linkwitz Orion owners, your speakers are fabulous and are in my top few of all speakers/systems I have heard.  My comparison was no attempt to fault your speakers.  It is only my own "experience" and ears giving the opinion."

By Mike
Ronin Owner from Paul's website

[steve k]

Thanks for the detailed review, Mike.

We're looking forward to hearing Paul's Ronin down here in St. Louis next month. I appreciate your comparison to Maggie 3.6's as I'm currently using IIIA's. I'm not surprised the Ronins outpace maggies in the dynamics department. I'm not much on high volume listening so I've been able to get by on that point but your other comparisons are intriguing. We're anxious to hear the Ronins particularly with some tube amplification and also with the UCD--should be an interesting comparison on the amp end as well.

Could we trouble you to list the rest of your system for the curious out there.  
Thanks again,
steve

[Audioexcels]

Hi,

The big amp I had for only the evening really was a Metaxas Solitaire that was modded for stability, an issue Metaxas has had with their equipment.  It was a beautiful amp.  I'd rather not think about that now:).

Other amps include the recommended Yamaha A-700 that was compared and identical to the Hypex UCD180.  I also used the JVC F10S but not burned in.  Had an ART SLA2 that did have some juice, but not good juice for the speakers.  It's going back Monday.  Last, but not least, I had a DIY push-pull tubed amp with 40 watts that was very good.  It really needed a preamp and I don't have one.  It really needed gain and I can say that in spite the lack of sufficient gain, it got very loud.  If you will have a tube amp that is 40-100 watts of REAL power, it should have no problem driving the Ronins.

Right now, I only have a passive knob direct from dac.  I need an amp that has a very sensitive input signal so the passive/dac design has no problem dealing with the gain/signal.  Hypex advertises their modules with 26db output, but I don't quite understand that in relation to input sensitivity.

My setup is the Zhaolu Dac modified by Oritek Audio with a fully discreet output stage.  Squeezebox with 5V linear power supply is my transport for it.  Cabling is all Oritek.  X-2's for the analog and his digital for coax.  If you have not heard this stuff, it was tested against a 17K dac and in order to make a comparison, they had to insert some X-2's into the person's esoteric system.  The verdict was very close then, though the engineer for Oritek did say his Dac still sounded better in the treble and bass regions:).

[Double Ugly]

Nice review, Mike.  Sounds like the Ronins have made you a very happy man.

I'm glad, too, that you like the Ori's Zhaolu.  I tried one in my system, but it made pops through my speakers sufficient to make me worry about the drivers.  I sent it back, but Ori couldn't find anything wrong with it.   

I wish I'd been able to reach the 5-7 day point, the time when everything is said to be fully burned-in and the DAC really comes into its own.  During my all-too-brief stint with it, the sound was very smooth - almost too smooth - and the highs and lows seemed rolled-off.  In fact, the lows were *really* MIA.  I have to believe things would have improved if circumstances had allowed a prolonged stay in my system.

Regards,

-Jim

[Audioexcels]

I'm sorry to hear about the issue with the dac.  Which version did you have, the 1.3 or 2.0?  With respect to rolled off highs/lows, maybe it has something to do with the popping as you said.  Sounds like something wasn't right as it should have never popped period. 

There's a little story I was told a while back about a Cal Labs cdp that was bone stock and the group (bunch of audio lovers that would get together and do shootouts and have fun) loved it so much that one quickly purchased the same exact model/year/etc.  But it didn't sound anywhere near as good (sounded much worst and also entirely different).  Assumption was quickly made that the good one had been modded and the group enthusiastically took the two units to the group member that was an engineer/electrician to find out how to "modify" the other to sound as good as the "reference" one.  The tech spent days and days to find that there was no difference in parts/values/design/etc. of either device.  Of course the group was bummed because they wanted to have the good sound of the one, but in the end had a story to tell that sometimes we cannot explain things even when the objective side looks as it should.

That said, I think there's some strange magic in the audio world, and in your case, it could be that Ori could not find what exactly it was making the popping just like that tech could not figure out anything different from the same two stock cdps. 

Did you ever try his digital cable?  Not that it's necessary since I have used the squeezebox one while I was comparing his digital as an analog to other analog cables.  Just very strange this happened to you.  I'm sorry you had to experience this.

Rolled off highs and lows is not what I have experienced.  Even from the start, it has sounded very balanced with incredible musicality, speed, tonality, resolution. This, the cables, and the speakers are the three things I would never part with.  But I could easily see myself using many different amps throughout life.

I hope you now have something that is working better for you.

[Double Ugly]

Hi Mike,

My order with Oritek Audio was comprised of the following -

• Zhaolu D2C/AD-1852, no headamp      $150.00
• Comprehensive Zhaolu mod                $225.00
• X-1 0.6 meter digital interconnect        $ 70.00
• Shipping (priority w/insurance)           $ 25.00

So yes, I used one of his X-1 cables as a digicable.  Since the popping took place rather early (the DAC was in my system less than 4 hours), I was unable to perform any comparisons with my current cable.

The highs seemed a little rolled-off and closed-in...definitely not the extended, airy presentation I'd expected.  And as noted earlier, something was definitely amiss with the bass.  Otherwise, the midrange was very, very good, albeit a little smoothed.  By "smoothed" I mean leading edges were less than crisp.

That said, I think there's some strange magic in the audio world, and in your case, it could be that Ori could not find what exactly it was making the popping just like that tech could not figure out anything different from the same two stock cdps.

I agree.  Everything I have read and heard about the DAC - before or after Ori's mods - leads me to believe my experience was/is an anomaly.  Too bad for me, huh?   

I was very much interested in trying his X-2 interconnects, and had every intention of doing so had my DAC experience gone better.  Despite the significant increase in price from the X-1, they're still well below the retail price of my Stealth Indra.  In fact, they're well below the used price.  To sell my Indra and realize equal or better sonic performance with the X-2 would have been wonderful, but alas, it wasn't meant to be either.

For now, I'm at a standstill.  Until I determine whether or not my amps will sell, I'm going to hold off on auditions.

My apologies to you and to Paul for the brief excursion from the intended purpose of this thread.  In retrospect, it's clear I should have saved my Zhaolu comments for different thread.

Regards,

Jim

[Audioexcels]

It is definitely the only adverse experience I know of.  I know a person that has been through who knows how much equipment including very modest to very expensive dacs/cabling and he's never been happier with the same setup.  The X-2 is certainly something else. 

Back to the review...anyone wanna loan me a nice amp so I can tell you if it is anygood?

I plan to build the Hypex UCD400 and a friend will be doing some 80-100 watt Tubed monoblocks so I will have some much more informative response about how the Ronins REALLY sound...kinda scary how much I love them in spite I haven't even opened them up to "realize" just what they can do by all accounts.

[PaulHilgeman]

Mike,

Thanks for the posting.

I will probably have my amplifier done this week, and I will send it to you.  I have to have it back pretty quick though.  I will finish it ASAP and do some hard core resistor heating for a few days to get it good and burned in.  I just bought two 400W 4 ohm resistors for amplifier break-in!!!

When are you planning on building yours?  I'd imagine that I could get it to you by next wednesday or so.

As to amplifier power.  Keep in mind that Mike likes to listen very loud and has a pretty open listening space.  I have played these speakers on plenty of amplifiers in small to medium sided rooms, and it dosn't take much.  I used a calibrated M&K SPL meter last week and verified at multiple frequencies that the sensativity at 2.83 volts at 1 meter, they are 87.5dB sensative, absolutely verified, and NOT fudged.  So, yes, they can boogie with moderate power levels.  My reason for liking the UcD400 is just because it sounds great!

Regards,
Paul Hilgeman

[Audioexcels]

Thanks Paul!

You are right about power.  The 40 watt tube amp powered them very well and so did the 100 watt Yamaha and JVC (the JVC actually wasn't as loud as the other two in spite the 100 watt rating).  But as you are saying, I like serious sound levels at times so when I say underpowering, I refer to not being able to drive the speakers insanely loud without clipping.  And the room is very big.

If anyone has any questions feel free to send me a question or few:).

[Tyrro]

Just a short review here of my personal experience with the Ronin yesterday.

Paul was kind enough to invite me for an audition of his speakers, so I took it with great interest. In a word, it's amazing, as Paul said it's a fantastic speaker. BTW, thank you Paul for your hospitality and the time you spent to explain all the details about the design of the speakers.

Going back to the off-axiss response, I've tried to listen to it while standing and moving around the room and it was very good, way better that any speaker I've heard before. Usually sound stage collapses with a normal speakers when you move to the left or right of the speakers, but not with the Ronin, it preserved the height and depth of the sound stage even when I was standing some 60 deg. off-axiss - I've never had such experience before.

The overall sound is very smooth in a sense that it's very balanced across entire frequency range and nothing stands out. Highs and midrange are very natural sounding, meaning like real instruments in real live, or at least very close to it (I was playing in a jazz band myself some time ago, so I have a first hand knowledge of a live sound).

The Ronin uses Seas Excel drivers, so I guess I really love their sound (I've noticed the same thing when I was auditioning Linkwitz Orions last week, Orions use Seas drivers as well).

The bass was a little weak for a 10" woofer, but as Paul explained to me and he told me this when we were exchanging emails with each other before setting up a demo; that his basement, where we were listening the Ronin is overly damped (that's the way it was when he bought the house, but he said he will address this and make it right). But the speakers did sound excellent nonetheless.

To see if I can get a better bass response, I've asked Paul to loan me the Ronin over the weekend so that I can listen to them in my own room. I installed them last night, but didn't do any critical listening yet, it was almost midnight, but already noticed a much better bass response. So, I need to go back and listen some more and I'll post later if anyone interested.

BTW, Mike could you explain to me why did you add the back-firing ribbon tweeter to your pair? Because, I found the highs are excellent and sound stage depth behind the speakers is very good as well, so I'll be interested to know why you did this? Thanks.

[joperfi]

Tyrro,

Please keep us posted on your progress over the weekend.  Also, you mentioned that you recently auditioned the Orions.  If you don't mind, how do they compare with the Ronin?  I have heard the Orions and was very impressed.

Thanks,

--Joe

[Tyrro]

Hi Joe,

After some serious listening (I throw every kind of music on them, classical, jazz, acoustic, rock), they did VERY well. Amazing clarity, tonal accuracy and great dynamics. They are able to play very loud with no sign of constrain. I've also played some classical music to see how will they handle complex passages, when 'so-so' speakers are just 'mash' everything together and you can't distinguish between different instruments playing at the same time, like big orchestras, so they did very well...what can I say, I just love them.
I tried them with both of my integrated amps - Krell KAV400xi and DK Design VS1 MKII w/ Siemens CCa tubes. My primary analog source is Nottingham Interspace w/Shelter 501 MKII MC cartridge and Ray Samuels XR-2 phono amp, and my digital source is Denon 2900.

As for the Orions, I also was and still is very impressed by them. I had a formal demo a few weeks ago, and after that demo I actually was considering buying them. When I say formal , I mean that it was a formal meeting with a guy who just demoed his speakers. I didn't have a luxury of trying out every possible type of music and spending more time with them, moving them around the room, etc. Paul on the other hand did everything possible and impossible to make me comfortable, we actually listened to the Ronins in two different rooms, just for a comparison. I could play anything I wanted and of course having the possibility to audition them in my own room with my gear is the perfect demo.

I'd probably bought the Orions if I didn't hear the Ronin. It just makes everything easier. I don't have to buy crossover/EQ, pre-amp, 6-ch amp, 6 interconnects, speaker cables etc. My system could be very simple (minimalistic) and have the same or almost the same quality performance. I was also afraid that dipole woofers in Orions won't be able to work properly in my small room. On the other hand sealed woofers (the pair I demoed wasn't ported) works pretty good in my room. Of course, I'd still need to do some room treatments to get the best out the Ronins.

I just feel that everything I heard, liked and was impressed with Orions I can get with the Ronins, just with less hassle. And, did I tell you I love that bamboo finish 

Tyrro,

Please keep us posted on your progress over the weekend.  Also, you mentioned that you recently auditioned the Orions.  If you don't mind, how do they compare with the Ronin?  I have heard the Orions and was very impressed.

Thanks,

--Joe

[joperfi]

Tyrro,

Thanks very much for the analysis.  Please keep us posted of any significant progress with the Ronin's.   I like the Bamboo finish also.  I have corresponded with Paul and, yes, he seems liek a great guy.

Regards,

--joe

[Tyrro]

A few things I could add to this is they are capable of recreating live music event so vividly, it's just scary The soundstage and imaging is so good, the music is no longer flat and obscure, but 3 dimensional and filled with so many micro and mini details, it's unbelievable. Pauld came today to take his demo pair back and I put my old speakers back, and I can't belive that I was missing so much information, especially in the midrange, it's so good and palpable in the Ronin. Well, you gotta hear them for yourself.