[JDUBS]

Guys

I would love to hear some feedback on these speakers.  I'm moving into a smaller space and they seem to be perfect (single driver, reach down to 30hz, not huge) for my needs.

I'm thinking of this setup:

Welborne battery preamp -> Red Wine Signature 30 -> Brines FTA-2000s

Sources will be a modded SB3 and a Lenco L75 with a custom plinth and a K&K phono preamp.

I would love to hear what people think!

Thanks!!

-Jim

[GHM]

Hi Jim,

Only thing I'm concerned with is the 30 wpc. The Brine's seem to blossom off more power than this. In my system 30 battery wpc sounded some what lifeless. I would consider a more powerful amplifier in your case. Not sure on the room size which could also be a factor.

Once you become accustom with the sound. Hearing changes made upstream is very easy. The speakers will tell you the character of each component.
Definitely not the normal single driver speaker. You'll give up efficiency for more bass. Since they are 8 inchers the ultimate sweet spot is small..similar to most electrostatics. Once locked into this spot though you get great resolution and midrange speed.

[JLM]

Jim,

I commissioned the original FTA-2000's and so have listened to them for 2 years now.  I'm a speaker guy and decided that the lack of 100 dB+ spls, 20 - 30 Hz response, and dynamics of higher efficiency speakers was worth the coherence and active amp connection that a true full range single driver speaker could provide.  I've also listened to transmission line designs for decades and love the full, musical bass they offer. 

I love these speakers.  I use them in a dedicated listening room that is 8 ft x 13 ft x 21 ft in a nearfield (68 inch equalateral triangular) setup.  Like other single driver designs they seem to be at their best with small ensemble pieces (typical jazz, piano, chamber music).  The FTA-2000's are tone masters, yet very detailed.  And of course they image well.  For my 40+ year old ears the beaming is only noticable when outside the sweet spot and then is a gentle roll off.  (I can still hear 16,000 Hz.)  Personally I listen for the emotive heart of the music, not the analytical details, so these speakers serve me very well.

As GHM points out, these are not your run of the mill single driver design.  Most sound thin and lack the bottom octave of music (30 - 60 Hz).  With single driver speakers the driver has no place to hide, so get the best you can.  The Fostex F200A with it's big alnico magnet is really the key here.  The value Brines provides is very high compared to how much others charge (usually about 10 times the price of the drivers, versus 2 times in the case of the FTA-2000).  Brines can tweak the speaker for you too (finish, the shape of the black plate behind the driver, maybe even the cabinet shape/driver height).  Note that there are only a handful of these speakers in existence.

I also use a RWA modded SB3.  And I owned a RWA stock/modded Clari-T for a year with the FTA-2000.  The Clari-T did a remarkable job and blew away small tube amps.  Yet it could not provide the commanding grip on the speakers that I believe to be optimal.  Bigger push-pull amps sounded undamped as you could predict.  Brines recommends at least 30 wpc of solid state, but is enough of a "speaker guy" to not concern himself beyond that.  I agree with his assessment.  GHM, I, and others are using 40 - 100 wpc of chip/digital amplification with great satisfaction.  Moving from the Clari-T to Channel Island VMB-1 monoblocks transformed the FTA-2000's from polite diner guests into NFL linebackers wearing tuxedos.  In my situations (a 50 year old house in town with original wiring and an electrically ideal new house in the country) I never noticed an advantage with battery power (my SB3 can switch between battery and RWA improved A/C).  BTW with the VMB-1's detail and imaging have improved with "small" sounds seeming smaller but better defined (connecting increased detail with imaging improvements).  I'd tried a total of 10 amps (including SET, push-pull, old solid state, digital receiver) and the VMB-1 and Clari-T were the best. 

[Bemopti123]

I agree with both GHM and JLM about the merits and the pairing of the FTAs with SS amplification of at least 40 watts per channel, to ensure that they would be driven correctly.

I have mine paired with a pair of Op chip Scott Nixon monos, that were modified by Parts Connexion...

Any description of what single, fullrange based driver speaker was thrown out of the window when I got my pair last year... None of the crossoverless speakers that I have heard so far can surpass what the FTAs can do in terms of neutrality, with great resolution and lightning fast bass lines that the TL can do.  I have compared the sound of the FTAs with commercial products that I own and I have also listened in several places and these can easily compete with speakers up to 5K and beyond for that matter.  One thing that these sort of crossover based, high end multi driver system can never get a stabbing chance at in comparison to the FTAs is the continuity and fluidity in performance that you can get with these speakers.  The Alnico F200A drivers are handsomely overbuilt and quite heavy, with a sonic signature that falls one shade away from absolute neutrality, towards warmth, without being inaccurate.  This will expose every single piece of your system...maybe that is the nature of the drivers, being used in professional monitoring settings.

I would imagine that the FTAs would also be suited to be used with Class A based amplifiers, such as the Classe, as well as some Pass lab designs...  I have even paired mine up with the McCormack DNA-225 and they rocked hard.

To read descriptions of these speakers are insufficient, if you can, you should listen to a pair with you own ears and you will see why people who own them love them to the extent that we do. 

PS:  I think there might be about 4 pairs of FTAs made in the US, a pair in CA, another in MI, another in my house and another in GHMs place. 

Someone that came to listen to them compared them with 12K Tannoys, the Tannoys being superior, but the mere comparison, I think proves the point, that they can compete with the very best. 

[bacobits1]

So, if not the FTA 2000's go with the FT1600II's that is what I'm running with 8W per channel PP Mini Max Amp.
Extremely nice with the Planet 10 phase plugs. I never heard beaming on the these anyway. I do use a HSU 350w 12" sub though in a 12X16 room. I will keep these for the long run as JLM also said " I love these speakers".

D

[JDUBS]

Guys, this is exactly what I needed!  Thanks!!

So, it sounds like gainclone is the road to head down.  For that I'm thinking of finding a used pair of Channel Island monoblocks (thanks JLM) or perhaps a Patek?

I think the Welborne should still be a good pairing with these (I already own it....just haven't used it yet; I like the idea of giving the amps / speakers some tube flavor).

Wow, I can't there aren't more of these speakers out there?  At least there is a strong % represented here on Audiocircle.com! 

Do these speakers do all genres well?  I really listen to LOTS of different types of music but mainly classic and modern rock.

Thanks!!

Jim

[GHM]

Since I don't listen to a lot of classic rock. It will be hard for me to answer that question. I know compressed music..sounds like compressed music on the Brine's.

Yes the Op chip amps are a terrific mate with these speakers.  I just sent my Audio Sector integrated off to Peter Daniels. It will come back with a switch on the back so I can toggle between using it as an integrated or using it as a amplifier. So you get a two in one deal. This setup shouldn't cost more than $1200 or so. You can get a single chassis Patek for around $1000. Just add the Black N cap upgrade and you have the exact same internals as the Patek SE. The Scott Nixon monos also work extremely well with the Brine's. I haven't heard the VMB-1's ,but I'm sure they sound similar to the others.

I believe I counted 5 owners of the FTAs that I know of on this site. Member Paul Bui runs the FTA's with the a RWA SB3-> Audio Sector NON OS DAC-> Single Power MPX3 SE-> Patek SE->FTA 2000s.

I know of two that own the FT-1600s also..bacobits being one of them.

I plan to try the Promethius TVC with my Patek SE/integrate. I want to see or hear what all the fuss is about with the TVCs. Darn there goes another component in the signal path. As long as the sound keeps getting better I'll keep adding!

If needed..From what Bob says..You can get higher SPL out of the FTAs or FTs by using an active crossover and sending everything below 80Hz to a subwoofer.

[Bemopti123]

Do these speakers do all genres well?  I really listen to LOTS of different types of music but mainly classic and modern rock.

Thanks!!

Jim

I listened to a gamut of styles of music from Classical, to Korean rap, Asian Dance music, electronica, sometimes hard rock.  The FTAs make the walls shake with the bass lines that are powerful, controlled, rhytmic without being boomy.  They actually produce better bass quality than a commercial speaker that I have, which supposedly reaches down to 20 hz and cost almost double or more what a complete FTA pairs go for. 

These speakers are handmade by Bob in Arkansas, his website is rather sparse and he does not send any of his products to reviewers, nor does he have the money to dine and wine any, even the most obscure internet audio critic, when you pay him for the job, he takes about 10-15 days to finish the product.  I do not believe there is a profit margin on his products, which makes me think that the reason why he produces speakers is to have fun making them and the fortunate people like us, to enjoy them.

Reading that you have a welborne labs amplifier, makes me think that you will not have sufficient power.  I can say that is the ONLY drawback of these speakers, that they need some power, not the Krell or Aragon kind, but 30+ watts to makes them sing for you.  They will sing with low wattage, but it would be almost like driving a Supercar with Honda civic sized wheels.   

[JDUBS]

Excellent!  Thanks again guys!

BTW, here's the tube preamp I'll be using is this one:

http://www.welbornelabs.com/ultra.htm

Its actually the version before Ron started using the wood case.  I think it will be a great pairing with a chip amp (leaning towards the Patek...prices are very reasonable GHM, thanks for the tips!).

I really love the coherence of the single driver and I'm hopeful that the Brines FTA-2000s will offer this and more (bass!).

-Jim

[maxwalrath]

I really love the coherence of the single driver and I'm hopeful that the Brines FTA-2000s will offer this and more (bass!).

-Jim

Patek has kick ass bass. Probably already knew that.....but I like saying it any chance I get.

[Bemopti123]

Oops, I got the wrong impression about the type of amp you would use with the FTAs, Jdubs, a tubed pre into a well engineered chip amp makes a truly oustanding sound with the FTAs. 

The FTAs made me reassess what a speaker sounded like, after I got them.  The spoiler is that, after you hear them and go on to demo hifi set ups from different manufacturers and audio shows, almost, if none of the speakers you will encounter will be of your liking.  That is what happened to me. 

[JLM]

JDUBS,

That pre-amp would be sweet with the RWA Sig 30 and FTA-2000's, especially if you have dirty power.

Single driver designs have a number of serious advantages:

1. By default they are "active" where the amp "sees" the simple driver load very well and can synergize extremely effectively with it.  Years ago Paradigm built passive and active versions of their Studio 20 (standmounted two-way).  The huge increase in bass power/depth and ruler flat frequency response was immediately obvious to anyone and sent most audiophile know-it-alls scrambling to explain how it was possible.  By the way, it was also quite cost effective.

2. The coherence of all the sound coming from a single source.  No shifting of sound from one driver to another or a change in voicing from a cone woofer to the ribbon midrange.  An absolute must for nearfield listening.

3. The perfect single sound source for ideal imaging.

4. No phasing issues as the signal travels amoung various drivers via crossovers.

5. The same money can be better invested in a better driver.

6. Even with the wide frequency response of the F200A, the emphasis is still on the heart of the music, the midrange versus the special effect frequency extremes.

[JDUBS]

LOTS to think about.  Thanks guys...I don't know what I would do without Audiocircle!   

-Jim

[Doc Jr 8156]

I have a pair of this wonderful single driver speaker.  I use them for HT.  You need to use more than 30 watts for this speaker to shine through.  Even my modded ST-70 (Welborne, 40 watts) sounded like not enough for the FT2000A.  The best amp combination I got for the FT2000A is with the Nuforce amps.  I tried Odyssey Extremes, CJ, ATI, ST-70, Scott, T-amp, Hafler, Alessi, Crown, UCD based amps and so on.  Hope you will enjoy your pair.  Goodnight, Godluck and Godspeed.

[JLM]

As soon as Paul Bui shows up we'll have a full FTA-2000 reunion.   

If the RWA Sig 30 is anything like the Clari-T, it's 30 wpc are really big watts with lots of bass.  So I wouldn't lose much sleep over the power, unless you listen really loud and/or in a very big room.  Remember that 30 watts provides 14 dB of gain while 100 watts provides 20 dB of gain.  Seven dB is quite noticable, but not twice as loud.  Chip amps are said by many to synergize well with single driver designs, but I'm sure Doc Jr's amps work really well too.

[Paul_Bui]

Guys

I would love to hear some feedback on these speakers.  I'm moving into a smaller space and they seem to be perfect (single driver, reach down to 30hz, not huge) for my needs.

I'm thinking of this setup:

Welborne battery preamp -> Red Wine Signature 30 -> Brines FTA-2000s

Sources will be a modded SB3 and a Lenco L75 with a custom plinth and a K&K phono preamp.

I would love to hear what people think!

Thanks!!

-Jim

Hi Jim et al,

If I were to start over, my source would either be a Bolder modded SB2/3 or an RWA modded Olive Symphony/Musica.  Your choice of matching BB FTA-2000s with RWA Signature-30 should be a good one, but why adding a tube pre?  After reading Srajan's review on 6moons, I had a clear impression that the Sig-30 would be better without a preamp.  On the other hand, "a good tube preamp like the ModWright or MiniMax is "the hammer" with the Patek and what I think truly makes it perform like a $10,000 amplifier of any persuasion. That's what I'd recommend - a good but not silly-money tube pre.", according to Srajan whose ears I trust.  As you see below I did listen to him but not completely.       

Back when the Sig-30 didn't exist I got the Patek and lived with it for a while before I jumped on GHM's recommendation on the SinglePower head-amp/preamp.  And he's right, the dual functioned MPX3 (SE) is bringing back music to my room, my ears, and my life.  Of course, my wish list includes a second Patek for monoblock amplification, an all-out Bolder modded SB2/3 or an RWA modded Olive or a Transporter as digital source, a pair of Bastanis Prometheus OB with Gemini tweeters.  But, as long as I enjoy the music with the current setup (RWA modded SB2/AS DAC/MPX3/Patek/FTA-2000), perhaps I'd better stay this way and save some $$ before the next upgrade fever strikes again.     

Reading your message once more, I understand the tube pre will accommodate your phono need.  But again on the amp side, just to be safe I'd wait until Vinnie's more powerful Sig-70 monoblocks come out, and you won't ever have to worry about lack of power.

And yes, it's good to see all of BB FTA-2000s guys here.  I've been so happy about the speaker's performance lately, due to the most recent adding of the MPX3 preamp.  Wall shakig organ and full body vocals even as lower volume, fast and sweet strings (violins, cellos), imaging depth and width, the SinglePower amazed me.  That, ladies and gentlemen, the amp achieves with stock 6sn7 and 6bl7 tubes.  I am going nut.

[GHM]

Glad to see you join the group Paul!!

JLM,
When comparing 30 battery wpc against 45 linear wpc or higher. I'm not sure if the extra dB's or what exactly plays apart in what I hear. Engineers will say it all sounds the same...unfortunately it doesn't with a tuned ear.

Neither do I listen more than 75dB or so. The difference is very noticeable in my room. Everything seems trundicated or compressed with 30 battery wpc on my Brine's. There's a sense of ease that 30 wpc just isn't going to give, whether it's on a grid or not with this speaker. I also use my Brine's for HT...30 wpc is a joke on them. No need to starve those speakers if you don't have to. If I could go back and get my integrated boosted in power. I would take it up another 50 wpc or so. As Doc and Paul suggests 70 wpc or more should be terrific on the Brine's. If you listen too a lot of compressed music..better make it 100 wpc or more.

Once you live with a well designed linear power..you'll understand that running all the equipment off batteries isn't that big of a deal. Having some head room is good with these speakers. It allows them to open up.There's a balance you must find in power for the speakers and your taste.

[JDUBS]

Hey Guys

Thanks again!  I'm certainly not married to any particular amp / amp design.  If these suckers like head room, how about Ric Schultz latest, the EVS500M? 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=30222.0

I'm a big fan of his tweaking and certainly these are very nicely priced.  It sounds like they may enjoy the influence of a tube preamp as well.

-Jim

[JLM]

Jim,

You can search for debate/comparisons between NuForce and Channel Island digital amps here at A/C.  No real axe to grind here, as I'm sure the synergy factor plays big.  And besides, single driver designs are relatively easy to drive.

I like Ric too, but the smaller amp would seem to have adequate power (100 wpc) for $1200 less.  Remember that the F200A is only rated 27 watts rms and 80 watts peak.  Not sure how his amps would compare to other digitals.


GHM,

Gee, I thought moving from 8 wpc to 40 wpc was a big jump.     I agree with conventional wisdom that says bigger amps that can deliver clean peaks is much preferable to smaller amps that could clip.  And I've often said that the amp should sized to have a commanding grip on the speakers.  I even tried an older 100 wpc Rotel on the FTA-2000's, but it was so much more a plow horse than a race horse that the sound quality was the overriding factor.  As always (the unmeasurable) proper synergy is very important.


Doc,

$2400 for amps blows my budget (I paid $3100 for the entire audio system).