Improvements in CD replay....nearly free

8thnerve · « **Reply #40 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 01:33 pm »

First off, I have no stance on this issue, but I thought you all should read this.

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=digital&n=67159&highlight=&session=

wongstein · « **Reply #41 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 06:12 pm »

Thanks 8thnerve,

That's an interesting link. Their discussions bring to light the fact that that the ad-hoc test that I proposed would't provide a conclusive negative since the test doesn't acknowledge jitter or other data signal quality effects (but it still could provide a positive conclusion if one found a measurable difference). Anyway, I still stand by the other stuff I said. For the record: Jitter in high-end players and DACs vexes me. How could anyone sell a $3K+ DAC and not build in a few dollars worth of jitter-correcting resampling or RAM buffering? I can only surmise that they also sell a transport and digital cable on which there is plentiful markup. Harrumph. What CD players are we talking about anyway? Who has what? My Micromega Stage 6 seems immune to this problem. Everyone who has tried this: message me or post something and we can make another tally.

peakrchau · « **Reply #42 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 12:54 pm »

Quote from: wongstein

Thanks 8thnerve,

...My Micromega Stage 6 seems immune to this problem ...

You can add listh http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=80294&highlight=meitner+dCS+jeromelang">Meitner and dCS to the list of players without this problem. Based upon your system components consisting of Micromega Stage 6, Creek passive volume control, Bryston 4B, Apogee Centaur Majors, and Nu-Vista interconnects certainly seems transparent enough. Just out of interest, could you try the "skip track access" again but before you do try flipping the absolute polarity of your speakers. I hear that this can obscure the effect.

Dozer · « **Reply #43 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 04:50 pm »

Hey Peakr... I have a friend who owes me $10,000 but I need help smuggling his money into Adiophoolia, the country where I live.

Would it be ok if he sent you the money order for $10,000 - and then you could keep $1,000 as your fee for helping me, and wire the rest via Western Union to my Swiss account?

You would be helping me avoid my country's excessive duties, and I hope 10% is a reasonable fee for your assistance.

Please contact me with your info so I...er...I mean my friend will know where send the money order.

Thank you for your cooperation, and if you accept a fee of only 5%, I will throw in the deed to the Booklyn Bridge and the pink slip to Air Force One.

Dozer · « **Reply #44 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 05:01 pm »

Boy am I embarrassed - I just tried it and it WORKED! I'm sorry I ever doubted or made fun of this idea.

I have had my CDP sent to Mod Modster, who is going to make it play the first 15 seconds of the previous track AUTOMATICALLY, even on random play!

My wife is especially excited about this. Our guests will seem like such dumsh*ts going "uhhh why does your CD player do that?". Fools. My wife and I will just snicker knowingly, and try to help them understand that it "sounds like vinyl".

I am glad that someone was able to think outside the box and share this outstanding free tweak with us! I shudder to think of all the keypunch combinations the person must have tried before he discovered what I like to call "the formula".

Thanks! And sorry for my facetious remarks on the previous post. It's not nice to imply that people are stupid.

nathanm · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 10:59 pm »

I'm glad you have seen the light Dozer! I must admit, sometimes those first 15 seconds of the previous song really make me get into the music, but I know I must force myself to advance to the next song anyway. I know that it's just a cold, hashy, jittery digititus-infected version of the song to follow, which is enriched with warm euphonic analogue vinyl goodness, but sometimes it pains me to have to advance ahead. I guess compromises have to be made.

What I am really struggling with is the first song on the CD! Since there's no track before that one, how can I make that one play with Digi-Vinyl SoundTM? Anyone got any ideas how to overcome this?

hmen · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 11:45 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

What I am really struggling with is the first song ...

In order to get that magical effect on the first song you need a five-disc cd changer. Put the cd you want to listen to into slot number two. Then put a copy of the same cd (it works better if you copy it onto a black cd) in slot one. Play the last 12-15 seconds of the last song in slot one and then hit the skip disc button. Make sure it's the skip disc button and not the numeric disc two button. Also, I've noticed that it works better when you do this using a remote control (except in February).

nathanm · « **Reply #47 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 02:34 am »

Thanks for the tip hmen!

Wow, I also noticed another thing which makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE! By using the buttons on the CD player itself to play the first 15 seconds and then using a remote control to perform the next track selection you can achieve a sound that is as near to the master tape as I've ever heard! If you use just the remote alone you get the vinyl sound, but with the player\remote combination it unlocks a whole new realm of high fidelity. Of course, this HUGE DIFFERENCE will only be noticeable on very top end, high resolution systems, the likes of which you could never afford anyway you lowly plebes. If you can't hear it well... too bad. I guess maybe your hearing isn't nearly as good as mine, nor your system as revealing to these HUGE DIFFERENCES!

I did this trick on track 14 "Cerebrospinal Fluid Discharge" on the recently released Norah Jones and Diana Krall Duet album. An old friend of mine from school dropped by the same day. When he came into my listening room I had this song playing and he said, "Whoah, you're still playing RECORDS? They still make these things?! That's so '80s, man!"

"Oh no!" I said, smugly. "We're listening to a CD!"

"A CD? No way! The PRAT and soundstage depth behind the speakers is way too good for CD! You're joking me!"

"There's the turntable man, do you see it spinning?"

"So this is really a CD!? How did you achieve this monumental breakthrough in digital technology that sounds like vinyl!?"

A long dissertation followed about the merits of proper CD track selection. By the time he left he was thinking about trying this himself on his own system. I said good luck, but I knew his power filtration system was not nearly weighty enough, not to mention it was pitifully inexpensive. But maybe he will be able to get a tiny taste of the high end. I sure hope so.

peakrchau · « **Reply #48 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 01:10 pm »

Quote from: Last week's tally

... tallied the responses so far. Out of 15 responses:

3 can reproduce the result (YES)
8 cannot (NO)
4 are undecide (Carlman, JoshK, Malcom Fear, and randytsuch)

...

This week's Tally:

The total vote/response on this issues sits at 19 for an increase of 4 (Wongstein, Dozer, 8thnerve, pychicanimal). The results are:

Changes:

http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=hmen&type=1

http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=byteme&type=1

Although I think the "skip track" access had its merits, the voting so far indicates that it is not the only issue in most peoples system.

Table of Voting:

	Yes	No
1	peakrchau	nathanm
2	Tsunami	Hantra
3	subhuman	2channelguy
4	-	Bwanagreg
5	-	Byteme
6	-	DBF
7	-	hmen
8	-	Wongstein
9	-	Dozer
10	-	JoshK
10	-	Carlman

hmen · « **Reply #49 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 02:15 pm »

I tried it and it didn't work.

calsaint · « **Reply #50 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 02:21 pm »

I for one would never dismiss this just because it sounds so ridiculous. Peak obviously knows his stuff. Anyone that has frequented the DIOMods board would recognize that he knows what he's talking about and is well in tune with how his gear sounds (and how to make it sound different).

I will, however, dismiss this because I'm not going to consider performing such gymnastics just to hear my music. My girlfriend would have ne committed.

peakrchau · « **Reply #51 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 09:43 pm »

Quote from: calsaint

.. Peak obviously knows his stuff... is well in tune with how his gear sounds (and how to make it sound different).

Steve

Thanks for the compliment but all of this "accessing" stuff we are talking about is not conclusive, yet. I'm merely gathering datapoints because as large a difference as I find it makes in my system, some other systems do not show the same results. Part of the reason, perhaps, is that i have a cheap/variable transport. The degree of improvement on my friends high-end transport is less and subtle. I used to think that this variability in playback was because of my neighbour turning on his air conditioneer or the hydro just being hashy...which it is sometimes due to my light dimmer. Some days I just turn off my system and do something else rather than listen to sterile hashy sounding gear.

I always find the "skip access" to perform better than "keypad access", but that the degree of improvement can be variable on my DVD transport.
Instead of playing the previous cut for 15 seconds, try 5,10, 15, 20, 25 seconds and see if you notice anything different between each. I can already hear the snickering butI find my unit to be best somewhere between 12 seconds to 15 seconds. More repeatable results but not yet 100%...something else is preventing me from nailing this "variabilty" gremlin completely...but I'm getting much closer.

I know the "performance" of a few CD cuts very well...when done right, the overall impression of detail, air, bass, soundstage, etc does not leave you wanting when the cut/album is done playing. This is (for me) also the preferred day-to-day listening (and evaluation) approach as compared to rapid A/B comparisons done by playing one cut for 30 seconds and then the same cut for 30 seconds to hear the effect of mod.

When the "tracking" is right, I can skip around to your hearts content and improved sound stays on every track. (Do not hit the pause button or mute buttion...as they seem to alter things as well...this to be checked).

The best piece of advice that I can recommend is to just listen to whole CDs by just accessing the first cut with the "skip access" method and listen to complete CDs as you would normally do...just hit the skip key multiple times to get to the track you want.

For those more venturous types, you might change up the previous track play time by a few seconds once in a while. I've been told by some that the OPTIMAL magic "wait period" can vary about recommended "15 seconds" for different DVD units.

Report back here in a week with your overall impression of your enjoyment of music (li.e. ess enjoyment or more enjoyment and not whether you can hear the tweak). . A more scientific approach to all of this was presented by http://www.revelspeakers.com/pdf/listening_lab.pdf">Revel Corporation on listening and product improvement. One of their key points is that Double Blind Testing must have trained and experience listeners...a skill that can be taught. On that I agree.

The ones who I think will have the best success are those who have systems that sound great on certain nights for some strange reasons and then suddenly not so great on the same cuts. For those individuals, this procedure is part of the answer...hopefully it is the answer to repeatability of improved sound, period, for them.

On the matter of system setup, I heard a lot of good equipment at a sound show recently. Out of 14 floors (about 140 exhibitors), I only heard about 3 that were truly outstanding and in my humble opinion comparable to what I can get at home with a modest setup via DIY (and years of tuning). Note: I'm not the most demanding person in terms of low frequency, so many at the show beat my system hands down.

For those who have not tried it and think this is completely hokey...I understand and completely agree with your position...IT SHOULD NOT MAKE A DAMM DIFFERENCE...I'm just asking you to relax, give it another week, and try some of the things suggested above.

cheers,

peakrchau · « **Reply #52 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 11:57 am »

Quote from: On Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:21 am calsaint

...I will, however, dismiss this because I'm not going to consider performing such gymnastics just to hear my music. My girlfriend would have me committed.

and eariler

Quote from: On Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:41 am nathanm

Oh wait, perhaps it is a measure of TIME, not money? It's true, for example on a 10 track CD you will spend roughly 2 extra minutes prepping the CD for that "vinyl sound" to follow. ...

Once the CD is setup, the improved sonics stay for the entire CD. You can also skip forward and backward in any fashion you like (just no keypad, pause or stop pressess). Bottom line is that it is a minor inconvenience for most and one that will allow you to keep your girlfriend from having you committed

nathanm · « **Reply #53 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 04:37 pm »

BikeWNC · « **Reply #54 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 05:14 pm »

It sure looks like George W. in that picture. But where are the snakes?

Carlman · « **Reply #55 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 06:20 pm »

I think that's Trent Lott with his hand raised...
No snakes? This doesn't qualify for snake oil... maybe snake fumes...

peakrchau · « **Reply #56 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 10:10 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

I think that's Trent Lott with his hand raised...

The lady definitely felt a "difference". I think the guy with his hand up just took a little longer to appreciate the sudden clarity...I'll add two votes to the "YES" camp

JefferyK · « **Reply #57 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 09:32 pm »

Try this:

- Insert a CD
- Press play
- Play CD for 15 seconds
- Press the back button

See if you can notice a difference in sound quality. My pop CDs don't sound much different, but my classical and opera CDs sound way better.