[James Tanner]

legitimate question from a curious person.  I don't want you to give anything away that may be proprietary...  but how do these PCs differ from units from say Balanced Power Technologies (BPT)?  It seems like you have higher power units that use bigger Plitron toroids... but within the same power range, both companies appear to be using the same transformers and appear to be using very similar technologies for surge suppression...  just curious what these units offer that is different than the BPT stuff... I might have to look into them

Hi,

BPT offers 6 units from 7.5A to 20A. All units feature balanced outputs (60-0-60V) and use metal oxide varistors (MOV’s) for surge protection. All units operate from standard 120V input. BPT units use PLITRON transformers with LoNo and NBT technology.
 
Balanced output power requires GFCIs (ground fault circuit interrupters) because of the inherent safety issues with having a neutral conductor at 60V (neutral is usually 0 Volts). GFCIs are prone to nuisance tripping. Balanced power is 'not allowed' to be used in residential applications by national electrical codes.
 
Torus Power Isolation Units (PIUs) are available in 11 North American models with 9 power levels from 2.5A to 100A. All units are 120V output and provide noise reduction without balanced outputs or GFCIs. Torus PIUs are all safety approved.
 
PLITRON transformers and technology are used in Torus PIUs. They feature NBT, LoNo, Imin, LoStray and Ultra Screen Technology. Torus transformers are much larger than typical transformers so they provide extra performance. (BPT's 20A unit is 20lbs lighter than the Torus Single 20A.)
 
Torus PIUs are also available with 240V inputs for higher power and further noise reduction through balanced inputs.
 
Most surge suppression circuits use MOVs which are sacrificial components that shunt surges to ground. Torus PIUs use patented series-mode surge removal filters to absorb dangerous voltage surges and safely dissipate them without shunting the surges to, and contaminating, ground. MOVs typically start attenuating voltages above 300V, Torus surge protection works from 2V above peak (172V). And while MOVs endure 10 to 100 surges of 1000V, Torus PIUs are certified to 6000V, 3000A at 1000 repeats.

james

[hometheaterdoc]

Thanks James! 

Much appreciated that you took the time to respond!  I appreciate the education.

[lbouchard]

James,
Last Thusday August 10th, I have called AudioLight in Quebec City for a price quote for a Torus A018-HCB-A1AA or A024-HCB-A1AB.
They said they do not have a price list and there not sure if the product is available for ordering. Could you please confirm if Audio Light is an official reseller of these products and if so send them a copy of the Canadian price list.
thanks

[James Tanner]

James,
Last Thusday August 10th, I have called AudioLight in Quebec City for a price quote for a Torus A018-HCB-A1AA or A024-HCB-A1AB.
They said they do not have a price list and there not sure if the product is available for ordering. Could you please confirm if Audio Light is an official reseller of these products and if so send them a copy of the Canadian price list.
thanks

Hi,

Will do.

james

[James Tanner]

James,
Last Thusday August 10th, I have called AudioLight in Quebec City for a price quote for a Torus A018-HCB-A1AA or A024-HCB-A1AB.
They said they do not have a price list and there not sure if the product is available for ordering. Could you please confirm if Audio Light is an official reseller of these products and if so send them a copy of the Canadian price list.
thanks

Hi,

Will do.

james

Hi,

Audiolight now have the price list.

james

[lbouchard]

James,
Thanks for the sending the price list to AudioList, I will call them soon.

Do you believe TorusPower can help me to regulate low voltage spike caused by my heat pump? When my heat pump starts, it draws a lot of current and the voltage drops to the point of resseting my SP2.

Thanks

[brucek]

When my heat pump starts, it draws a lot of current and the voltage drops to the point of resseting my SP2.

You really need to run a dedicated circuit to your audio equipment and it would avoid this problem..

brucek

[samplesj]

When my heat pump starts, it draws a lot of current and the voltage drops to the point of resseting my SP2.

You really need to run a dedicated circuit to your audio equipment and it would avoid this problem..

brucek

Its not quite that simple and that really just isn't true.  I'm not even sure that putting the audio gear on a dedicated circuit on the other leg in the panel box will help because doesn't a normal heat pump sit on both legs?  When a heatpump kicks on it draws a lot of current (many times their normal load).  Its electric motor causes lagging current which causes a voltage drop.   When we first moved in before we made the electric company do some checks I would get lights dimming when my neighbors pumps kicked on.  Even now my own lights dim for a split second when it kicks on most of the time.  Personally I have dedicated circuits for 2 different systems and both still droop (brief pause in the music) when the voltage sags. 

I'm no expert and don't even play one on TV, but to address the original question, Bryston would need to weigh in with the final word, however in general a single tapped transformer based PLC isn't going to be able to compensate for line voltage sags (constant windings).  Obviously a variac with multipe taps you can switch between would work, but it didn't look like the Torus was that type (more of a big isolation transformer).

One thing I did that helped some is to add a RSA conditioner that uses caps to sync the voltage and current back (trying to balance the power factors).  It helps to a degree, but I still get sags albeit at a much lower frequency (not nearly every start anymore).  Its funny shortly after I got the RSA conditioner I saw an IEEE article (available here) about TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority - regional power management) starting to use explore new ways to switch in and out capacitance.

---EDITED to cite and more correctly describe the original IEEE article.  Sorry for the bad remembering before

[brucek]

Its not quite that simple and that really just isn't true

Well, I suppose this may be the case if the service for the house is inadequate, given the addition of new appliances such as air conditioning or heat pumps that weren't originally spec'd. A heat pump motor can easily be six times its running current. The startup or locked rotor amps of a motor could easily be 150 amps. The service should be sized to accomodate this to avoid voltage drops. It is that simple.

If a seperate branch of adequate guage is provided to a 240 volt heat pump in a home with properly sized service, then the service voltage sag should be minimal on startup. There are many reasons for excessive voltage drop at the load center, but most can be rectified.

There simply should not be enough of a voltage drop at a dedicated circuit in a properly sized service supplying a device such as an SP2 that it resets. Its DC supplies can easily handle small variations in the AC line. If it does reset, there are other problems to correct.

brucek

[lbouchard]

Just to add more details to my setup, my main electrical panel is rated for 400 amps. So I do not thing I need more power than that to service my 30 Amps (240 V) heat pump. The wires from the electrical panel to the heat pump are #6 AWG (50 amps) which are correct for this application.
Also my home theater system is wired directly from the electrical panel to my livingroom with #12 AWG (20 amps) cupper wires. I have check with my fluke multimeter the voltage drop caused by the heat pump from 120 VAC to around 110 VAC for the split of a second. I can also see the incandecent lights in my house dim for a split of second. because the heat pump is 240 volts, both 120 volts phases are affected by the voltage drop.

because of this my SP2 reboots once in a while, i have no problems with my other pieces of equipment: 9B-SST, hd-tivo pvr, bell 9200 pvr, dvd, xbox... my stolen (that's why I now have a SP2) lexicon mc-12 did not have this problem either!

I have also tried to install a standard APC Smart-UPS  (computer grade) and it does not help... so now I am looking for a more drastic (or more expensive) solution to this problem.

[jethro]

lbouchard:

I had 200 amp service installed when I switched to electric thermal storage heat.
The system was installed in June, and the local power utility came back in
October to re-arrange our neighbourhood's wiring so I could actually get
200 amps. Have you checked with the power utility ?

[brucek]

Just to add more details to my setup, my main electrical panel is rated for 400 amps. So I do not think I need more power than that to service my 30 Amps (240 V) heat pump. The wires from the electrical panel to the heat pump are #6 AWG (50 amps) which are correct for this application.

All I can say is wow, 400 amp service!.....this is somewhat rare, and adds to my belief that you have a problem that should be solved, and it doesn't involve a Torus Line Conditioner.. If you can't easily supply a simple 30 amp heat pump on startup without a ~10% voltage fluctuation, you've got problems....

It sounds like you have the customer side of the situation taken care of quite nicely, but it brings into question whether your service side is correct. My reading says that the National Electric Code (NEC) specifies that no more than 2% voltage drop is reasonable.

brucek

[lbouchard]

I have called my local utility (Hydro-Quebec) and they said they will send someone to investigate the issue. I'll let you know what they have to say.

[lbouchard]

The electrician came today. he said three things:
 - 25kv transformer is too far away from my house
 - wire from the transformer to my house is too small
 - too many houses on the same transformer
next tueday (monday is labor day) they will extend the 25kv electrical network and install a new 50kva transformer on a nearer pole, then they will run a lower gage (bigger wire) from the new transformer to my house. he said that should fix the problem!!! cost of the operation: zero dollars, Hydro is going to pay for everything!
If this works, I will postpone the purchase of a Torus power conditioner to the summer and get a new 46" Sony XBR LCD! if it doesn't...

[James Tanner]

Hi,

The Torus is not going to do anything for violent drops in voltage.
It is designed as an ISOLATION and PROTECTION unit.
The Isolation provides a clean low impedance power source for all your gear and Protects them from voltage spikes (2 volts above peak) caused by numerous sources.

Sonically - better definition and control in bass response and much better openness with space and air around instruments.

james