Buying recycled lead shot

Tonto Yoder · « **on:** 10 Jun 2003, 01:33 pm »

JoshK's thread about the Teres turntable (incorporating lead shot) reminded me about buying recycled vs. new. When I bought a new fillable stand, I looked for shot locally but only found one 25 lb. bag at $1/lb I think; volume was less than that of a 5lb. bag of sugar.

Eventually, I found a guy locally who sold recycled shot at about 1/2 price.
I believe this is reclaimed from shooting ranges---it's kinda like the little tractor at the golfing ranges that recollects balls, but much more dangerous.

Besides the better price, he had 100's of lbs of the stuff.

If you go this route, you'll want to arrange the slight deformations on the shot in a pattern according to Cardas' "Golden Ratio"--you'll need a jeweler's loupe and a pair of tweezers (and alotta patience).

Carlman · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 02:33 pm »

Why not just melt it and pour it into a cast of whatever shape you want?
Seems like less trouble than arranging randomly disfigured bullets.

Or better yet, why not shoot the gun at something that produces the shape you want?

A little range time can be a great thing!

Hantra · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 02:55 pm »

Quote

A little range time can be a great thing!

Ohh noo. . . Tell me you're not into guns too! If that's the case, I'll have to load up the car with more stuff when I head down there. . .

B

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 04:02 pm »

It's actually how I got into hifi... I always played 'Ride of the Valkyrie' as loud as possible while at the range....

JoshK · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 05:27 pm »

Thanks TY for the idea! I don't know about arranging the shots, I don't think I would go through that trouble. That is tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of shots there you are talking about.

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 06:06 pm »

Josh, I can only believe Tonto was kidding.

Carlman,

Chris Brady did some testing on solid lead and shot and the shot sounded better to him when loaded in the platter. Again these tests were done on the platter not bass AFAIK.

I think it has to do with the shot obsorbing vibration and the lead letting it pass through.

In fact when he loads his platters, he doesn't fill them so that the cap presses down on the lead shot as this makes the shot act more like the solid. He leaves them "loose".

Carlman · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 06:41 pm »

I expected my idea to get shot down

....

I can see why loose shot would work better than solid. I think I'd order new loose shot that they use for reloading shotgun shells. It's usually very clean and perfectly shaped.... and wasn't very expensive the last time I bought it... about 15 years ago... maybe it's expensive now...

Good luck!

pjchappy · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 06:50 pm »

Why don't you just shoot a 12 gauge into the bottom of a stand until it fills up?

p

JoshK · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 06:52 pm »

Robert,

I thought he was kidding...but wasn't sure, sometimes with this hobby you know...

Carlman,

At around $18/25lb bag (give or take a few buck) lead shot for shotgun refills is fairly expensive consdering as TY said that this is a volume of merely the size of one sugar bag. Fill a whole stand worth = big bucks!

Kenobi · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 08:16 pm »

Hi all,

Have not done any comparison but the kitty litter I got at the local supermarket works fine as a substitute for the lead shot. It's more environmentally friendly (don't have to worry about the toxicity) and sounds better now than without. I got the Arm & Hammer brand at $7 bucks per 14lbs. Other brands are cheaper and may be bigger bargains but I thought I give this a shot and it's working out just fine for me.

Meow!

pjchappy · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 08:26 pm »

there really is no toxicity issue w/ lead shot unless it somehow starts creating dust particles. . . . .

p

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 08:38 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

Robert,

I thought he was kidding...but wasn't sure, sometimes with this hobby you know...
!

Yeah, that part was a joke, but can't you just see someone seriously advocating "organizing" your shot?!? Heck, it's hard enough just pouring the stuff through the little hole provided!

And people say the Amish have no sense of humor!

randytsuch · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Jun 2003, 10:48 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

At around $18/25lb bag (give or take a few buck) lead shot for shotgun refills is fairly expensive consdering as TY said that this is a volume of merely the size of one sugar bag. Fill a whole stand worth = big bucks!

Josh,
If I filled my stands with lead shot, they would weigh a ton. They probably have 4 cubic feet of space to fill.
Lead shot is expensive if you look at volume, but you don't need as much because it's so dense.

Randy

JohnR · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Jun 2003, 02:27 am »

Why not just use sand?

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Jun 2003, 03:33 am »

Quote from: JohnR

Why not just use sand?

Lead is denser so heavier per given volume. My speakers are tall but skinny, so I thought the heavier I could get the Sound Anchors bases the better. Lead has somewhat different damping properties than sand and was recommended to me (actually I ended up with a 50/50 mix of lead/sand). A lead-filled rack REALLY is heavy and drives those spikes into the carpet.

I'm not sure though I'd want to bet the farm on whether or not I could hear the difference between a sand-filled rack and a lead-filled one.

warnerwh · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Jun 2003, 05:33 am »

Yeah but I think sugar would sweeten the highes more.

BlackCat · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Jun 2003, 04:10 pm »

As an avid trap shooter, reclaimed shot is picked up from trap / skeet ranges in the interest of the environment. Since the shot was used for trap and/or skeet, it will be of size 7 and a half to possibly 9, and in reclaimed shot, possibly mixed. Good dealers do run it through a sizing sieve. It should be in fairly good shape, most of it never hits a clay target, and lands harmlessly on the ground. It is protected by the wad inside the shotgun barrel, and this prevents deformation from firing.

As for kitty litter, probably works as well. However Arm & Hammer has baking soda in it to absorb the smell of cat piss. You can find "bulk generic clumping litter" at PetsMart. Unless of course, you want your speakers to smell good

cyounkman · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 05:39 am »

I have been unable to find reclaimed shot, but I can buy new 11 kg bags of shot (#5 through #9) from a gun store (there aren't many in Toronto) for ca$24.

My speaker stands are the six-column Lovan Reference models; I'm guessing that filled with lead shot they would weigh close to 150 pounds. It just strikes me as silly. (I'm using silica sand, which damps the stands' midbass ring.) The density of lead does not preclude the inevitable transmission of vibration from the speaker to the floor, and thus to my rack and cd player. The reason? I'm guessing because the stand itself is still rigid. If you shake the top of the stands, the bottom shakes. Rigidity is generally considered a good thing for speakers stands, though; otherwise they might launch themselves backward during particularly percussive passages (i.e., the soundstage would recede dramatically).

What have I been using my lead shot for? I've kept it in the canvas bags it's sold in, and used it as a 'footer' for my cd player.
Why?

My thinking about cones and such is this: the best case scenario is that you get a 1-to-1 transmission of vibrations from the rack; without any spurious multiples. This has always seemed to me to be aiming a bit low. Without holding any advanced degrees in material science or frictional dynamics, it seems reasonable to me that a collection of small, dense objects held together in a bag could dissipate a lot more energy (vibration) as heat or whatever than could an object that is inherently rigid.

My first experimentation in this area came after I noticed the sensitivity to vibration in my old Audio Aero Prima. I used vibrapods for some time, but ultimately they seemed to be editorializing. Further, I had noticed that the cd player itself vibrated. How does one get rid of these internal vibrations, let alone isolate from external problems?

Long story short, the bags of lead shot seemed to do both. Using two bags laid flat, nearly the entire bottom surface of the player was damped. Vibrations from the outside world were diminished significantly, but not eliminated. The bag of shot is not inherently rigid, but when supported by the shelf and compressed by the weight of the component, it is quite dense and as such the larger vibrations (any that are not dampened between the shot) still get through.

The next step was to combine isolation with damping. My final arrangement with the player was vibrapods supporting a granite plinth, on top of which rested the two bags of lead shot supporting the cd player (feet removed). This arrangement was a staggering improvement over stock. Noise floor was banished, dynamics popped to life, and the slightly syrupy warmth yielded to warm instrumental timbre and a pleasant-but-still-revealing overall balance.

I am using the same setup under my GamuT CD-1. The differences are there, but not nearly as dramatic as with the Prima, for obvious reasons.

I have intentions to bring home Pulsar Points, Roller Block Jr's, BDR Cones, and some other options for a big What Hi-Fi-style comparison, but I'm not really inclined towards endless tweaking these days, and I have my doubts that there are huge differences yet to be made. (famous last words, I know)

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 11:45 am »

Chris et al,
another use for lead shot (especially if you have some leftover) is to fashion a DIY Magic Brick (commercially available from VPI). Could help shield components from EMI/RFI. One way is simply to place the lead shot bags atop gear; personally, I filled a wooden box that had been made to resemble a book.

Thump553 · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 12:03 am »

If you do decide to melt down the lead, don't do it indoors, around any kids, pregnant woman, etc. For the couple of bucks you save this health risk is not worth it in my opinion.