[rustydoglim]

NuForce is very serious about maintaining the absolute performance of our reference series products. In addition to passing our own critical listening test, we rely on a few very selective and well known audiophiles to do independent evaluation of our products before we release them onto the market.

One of them have evaluated the S-9 speaker in his perfect listening room and below is the preview of what you can expect from S-9:

I must admit that the older and the more experienced I get, the more skeptical I am about true breakthroughs in sound reproduction.

Over almost 40 years of being a dedicated audiophile I have heard many claims from manufacturers, as well as reviewers, only to be disappointed when I finally hear the latest and greatest device.  Very few products have withstood my listening tests and have typically remained for many years as properly revered audio products.

When the folks at NuForce asked me to evaluate a new speaker that they intended to build and market, my first thought was that they had lost their minds.  While they had done a superb job of building a very good amplifier, the Ref 9 SE, my instincts told me that they should focus on their amplifiers and not get distracted with a part of the audio market that is extremely crowded and more full of outlandish designs and claims than the other areas in the chain.

When they insisted that their new speaker was really special, I agreed to evaluate a prototype.  They delivered a rather small, but heavy speaker that looked somewhat different, but not too different from a standard monitor or large bookshelf speaker. We put it on the stands and they left.

Upon first hearing the speaker, I was stunned.  These were some of the fastest, if not the fastest speakers I had ever heard.  As a result, the attacks and decays are amazingly accurate. They had incredible dynamics, certainly rivaling or exceeding horn speakers more than 10-20 times their price, but without the nasality and compression distortions I still hear in even the most exotic and expensive horn designs (sorry if I offend expensive horn fans out there). They do not sound like horns, and they do not sound like electrostatics, but they project many of the advantages without some of the problems of these speakers: Very high speed and excellent transparency like electrostatics, but with much higher dynamic range; very high dynamic range like the best horn speakers, but without nasality and compression, and with imaging that is far superior to any horn speaker I have heard (I think I have heard most if not all the commercially available horn speakers, including the largest German designs and the $250,000 American monsters).  In fact, the imaging of the NuForce speakers rivals any mini-monitor on the market, regardless of price.

The harmonic content, the textures and the timbre of instruments is very good, but I think it could be even better. I am told that this will be improved in the final design.

The other characteristic that surprised me was the bass. I almost wanted to walk around the room to try to find out where they hid the subwoofer.  The bass simply goes much lower than I anticipated, given the size of the speaker.  While many manufacturers claim low frequency response from small speakers, it is usually either not there or it is terrible.  Not with this speaker.  The bass is tuneful, has lots of detail and texture, it is punchy, it has lots of slam and presence and although not quite as fast as the rest of the speaker it is fast enough not to be left behind. I can assure you that the first time you hear these speakers you will think that they have no right to go this deep in the bass.

One of the key items that differentiates this speaker is a special driver that covers a very large part of the audible spectrum.  The speaker has only one crossover point, which eliminates the possibility of crossover distortion in most of the audible region. Also, this driver is able to function with extreme speed and accuracy as mentioned above.

So, what do I conclude from all this?  Well, I think that NuForce has a tiger by the tail.  The speakers I heard were not in final form, so I have to be cautious with a recommendation. My understanding is that there will be some changes to the crossovers, the cabinet and the internal waveguides before the product is released.  Some of these changes are being made to improve the speaker further and some are being made for manufacturing efficiency.

If the final design is as good as this speaker can be, and if NuForce  can produce this speaker at a price anywhere near their stated goal, this can end up being one of the finest speakers on the market, but being sold at a price that is a small fraction of what most audiophiles are used to paying for speakers.

I am excited, and I can hardly wait to see the final product.

Mark

[zybar]

Jason,

You start out by saying you also rely on a few well known audiophiles...so who is this well known "Mark"?

Without knowing who he is, this review has no credibility and somebody at Nuforice might as well have written that "review".

George

[rustydoglim]

That's a good point but it is fine with us that you remain a skeptic. Users who have known Casey and I since we started posting on Audiocircle in 2005 know that we typically understate the performance of our products.  A company's reputation takes many years to build so as time goes by, people will come to understand our process (sure, we're still trying to improve it), the weight of our statement, the truthfulness of our recommendation, the value of our judgement and the integrity of our company etc. Yes, please take the review as a Nuforce review. We wanted it that way. It is our goal that eventually customers or potential customers will come to trust us.

[brj]

Even if someone trusts your opinion, they may not have the same preferences or priorities as you or the reviewer.

By not knowing anything about the reviewer, how he has reviewed previous components, the upstream components used for the audition in question, the room or its treatments, the music used for the audition and other such details, readers have no point of reference.  It isn't just about what the reviewer thought of the gear, it is also about how the reader can translate the reviewer's comments to his own frame of reference.

[rustydoglim]

Agree. Our reviewer went on vacation right after he wrote the review for us and I don't have his permission to disclose other stuff.  He is essentially referencing everything else that he has heard and the room is a near perfect sound room: dedicate transformer from electric company, 18 inches of concrete wall all around and floor with layer of lead for complete isolation, wall is covered with sound absobing material, etc.  Quite a few people in the industry were consulted to construct that room.

[mmakshak]

  I have no hesitation about Nuforce's integrity.  I definitely would like to hear the S-9.  I also would like a ballpark figure on the price.

[rustydoglim]

We're selling it below $5K a pair during the introductory period but few customers will be able to get it at this price since filling the showroom units from distributors and dealers will take up most of the production capacity.  S-9 is like the equivalent of our Ref 9SE. Eventually the price will go beyond $6K a pair. But don't worry, there will be something for everybody eventually

[zybar]

We're selling it below $5K a pair during the introductory period but few customers will be able to get it at this price since filling the showroom units from distributors and dealers will take up most of the production capacity. 

Do you really mean this?

If you do, not exactly the way to earn loyal customers.

George

[pacifico]

I lost interest in nu force just because of the way the price things. If they want to increse their customer base, they should consider giving people a break once in awhile. Especially those interested in the early iterations of their newest prods. Oh well, there is plenty of competition out there. Just my two cents, they can do business anyway they please, just not with my cash.

[ooheadsoo]

You should allow people to lock their price in rather than admit to something that sounds a little like bait and switch.

[ted_b]

I just got PM'd about these speakers and would love to listen to them, maybe even buy them (imaging and dynamics are major criteria for me).  I just sold over $15k worth of speakers and assume I'm in a pretty good demographic for these.  However, knowing and respecting the dealer network only goes so far.  The fact that NuForce had the cajones to state that an introductory price was out there but likely unavailable to the masses due to committed dealer shipments is, well, unbelievably arrogant, and sends a loud message to the customer base that the Company doesn't give a s#@t.  Guys, try to remember what it was like when you first got started and cared about the important things.  Unsolicited reviews popped up everywhere, not just from "mysterious Mark". 

There are just too many good speaker manufacturers out there who are earning great reputations.  Bob at SP Tech is one of them.  Nuff said.

[fly_fish_nz]

I was a little confused by what Jason wrote, mostly because it was not specific enough to understand exactly the specifics of the introductory pricing scheme, but I also didn't understand what nicked off some of those who responded.  I certainly didn't understand how the direct/introductory pricing implies they don't care about customers, e.g., if they are offering the direct price before the speakers are available through the dealer network.  Can someone fill me in on why the responses were so vehement?  Thnx.

[ted_b]

Yeah.  I have a new product that I'll sell for half-price today and tomorrow....except I don't have any more.  And when I do, they'll be full price.  Wanna buy some?

[rustydoglim]

Guess what, I am away for a while and people started jumping up and down because I just stated a short term fact!!!
ALL customers of Nuforce and people who read my posting here knows that
1) Nuforce always take care of her customers
2) Nuforce always think for her customers

S-9 is incredibly expensive to make (go ask Bob from SP Tech and see if you can buy one at this price from them) and Nuforce makes little to no money during the next few months of introductory period. Why?
Because it is very important for us to promote this technology and also move enough speakers to support SP Tech. I care only about what Nuforce customers think. Not those who jump into conclusion so quickly.
I have said enough. Go ask Bob yourself in your private message. And please don't post it in public. I don't need anyone to defend our actions.

Sure, if SP Tech can produce enough speakers at this price, many customers WILL BE able to buy them. Unfortunely that's not the case. Move the price up, the demand dries up. Lower the price, we can't make enough and still make next to minimum wage.  Mid $4K to $5K+ is almost the limit for speakers to move enough in volume. And SP Tech is still making minimum wage. You guys have no idea how much labor goes into making these speakers.  And how good they are 

If the speaker is priced too high, being a new product, it is hard to place it in dealers hand. Therefore, Nuforce bet her reputation and sacrifice all profits (all goes to SP Tech) to market S-9. And our worldwide distributors and dealers are responding.  Customers can still place orders with your dealers. We are scheduling October production and it is first come first serve.  We are commited to protect the price for 2006.  Again, SP Tech can tell you how much pain we're inflicting upon ourselves to market this thing. Because we believe in it and we have a big plan.

As I said, there will be speakers at all price point for everyone. Enough hint 
S-9 will be and SHOULD BE priced higher and it is still a steal at $5500.  Basically, S-9 is our Ref 9 SE equivalent. 

I hope I have explained enough and if you want to know more, PM me.

[zybar]

Jason,

Nobody was complaining about the price point you have choosen.  That is fairly straight forward...if it is priced right you will sell product, if it isn't, you won't.

You have pissed off and scared away potential customers because of this:

We're selling it below $5K a pair during the introductory period but few customers will be able to get it at this price since filling the showroom units from distributors and dealers will take up most of the production capacity.

Also, how do you expect to gain new customers when you say something like this:

I care only about what Nuforce customers think. Not those who jump into conclusion so quickly.

Well, if you only care about NuForce customers and you are advertising a lower price that people actually can't get, how do you expect potential NuForce customers to feel?

You probably think I am against you in some way, but I am not.  I am merely pointing out some potentially harmful communications you keep making in a publuc forum.

George

[rustydoglim]

I think people have taken my early statement out of context. I was simply stating a short term, ie. September to October production constrain.  Sure, I wrote that posting in a hurry and wasn't giving much thought to it. Then a few people jumped all over it. I am amused by the hostility of some people in this circle. A simple PM to me could easily clarify this.
As I have stated, customers can still order S-9 now from your dealers until the promotion runs out in 2006.  You have seen sales for products that are limited to certain number of units at various promotional events all the time. What's the different?
We have limited production capability for S-9.
In another way, we are offering the first 80 pairs (or so) at special promotional price for early adopters who doesn't care about reviews and awards.  If we can increase our production, we will do so. That's all there is.

This is a forum and posting are like conversation. This is a place where we get feedback and get in touch with our customers. So sometimes I posted stuff in a hurry. Unlike our website, my posting here is not always a well crafted marketing communications. So sometimes we say the wrong thing and go back to clarify it.

[Christof]

Well said Jason. 

I have been to SP Tech facility and seen the process of making these S-9 Speakers.  Bob, Jason, Mike and a couple others are literally work sweat shop hours out there.  This is a VERY complicated enclosure to build and finish, nothing like a a typical speaker enclosure even with CLD.  When I first saw this speaker in prototype I thought Bob was out of his head...in theory it's absolutely amazing and well thought out but building it in the real world at real world prices, forget it!  I whole hearted expected that this design would get put aside as just another "good idea" and now it's in production

We have limited production capability for S-9.
In another way, we are offering the first 80 pairs (or so) at special promotional price for early adopters who doesn't care about reviews and awards.  If we can increase our production, we will do so. That's all there is.

Are you trying to kill the guy?  Keep breathing, Bob!

[Aether Audio]

OK  Folks...

Looks like I need to help clear things up.  If you wanna be pissed at somebody - be pissed at SP Tech.

The whole problem is that Jason is having a hard time predicting just how many units will be available in the coming weeks.  Why? 'Cause I haven't been able to give him solid answers with regards to our production capability.

For starters, they want at least 20 pair per month and I don't think we produced much more than that all of last year!  We're a small outfit without a lot of capacity or experience producing those kinds of quantities.  But we're learing and getting better.

Second, this layered construction is totally new for us and is not common in the industry - period.  Yeah, there are a few others doing it - like Magico with their "Mini," - but then again look at the price.  Over $16K? WOW.  If you check out the 6-moons article on the thing you'll find that even still, its construction (the Baltic Birch shell) is nowhere near as complex as the S-9.  And if I were a betting man, I'd bet the S-9 would mop the streets with it.  No brag - just fact.  It's a matter of physics and driver compliment.

So NuForce is taking it on the chin because of us.  If we could produce more, they would have more available at the introductory price.  And the fact is that maybe we can.  We've added new tooling and modified CNC programs to increase throughput that HAS to make a considerable difference.  Time will tell just how much though.  Jason knows our limitations and just doesn't want to over-sell product and not deliver.  He's no fool and is playing it on the conservative side. 

It's a matter of the lesser of two evils.  Better to irritate a few prospective customers by letting them know up front that the product may not be available at the stated price...than take orders implying that it will be and then 9 months to make good on it after taking money down.  You think you're a little "ticked" now?  Tell me how you'll feel come April and you still don't have your speakers?

Why would they have to raise prices later?  How long can any business operate without a profit?  It's a calculated marketing risk to say..."OK, we'll sell product for $X and for X amount of time to get the market's attention.  After demand has picked up then we'll raise the price so we can make a profit."  I suppose one could just sell at the final price right out of the gate and put whatever profits there are back into advertising.  But then the only ones that benefit are the magazines, etc. - NOBODY gets a deal - ever.

If NuForce offers these first units to their dealers first, how can you blame them?  The dealers are what keeps companies alive.  Why not sell direct and save the mark-up?  Ha!  We tried that and almost went bankrupt.  Jason told me that it doesn't work (after I had already figured that out).  He told me that the only sales you'll get from the forums and word-of-mouth is from the early adopters that are looking for a deal.  That will last for about a year or so and then your sales will dry up.  For a minute I was wondering if he had a spy planted in SP Tech...'cause that's exactly what happened.

The fact is that 90% of you guys would never purchase from a dealer or pay anything close to the MSRP.  I know for a fact that one poster on this thread has stated that he'll never pay more than 50% of the MSRP - for anything.  Many will climb aboard and support a small company just to get good deals on their products.  They'll buy one pair of speakers or whatever and then become a "dealer" - never to make another purchase again.

Now...I'm not trying to beat up on you guys.  Saving money is a good thing for you all (and probably your families!).  The forums and initial sales that result from such gives a new, small company some place to launch from.  Heck, SP Tech would never have gotten where we have without AC, and I personally thank each and every one of you.  But...the economy of business rears its ugly head sooner or later and demands that we either grow or die on the vine.  That's where the dealer networks come in,  They continue to push your products and generate repeat sales that makes it possible for you to STAY in business.  That's where NuForce is now and has been for some time.  They have no choice but to support their dealers first - it's a matter of survival.  SP Tech is now headed in that same direction as well, out of absolute necessity.  I don't want to go back to working in a steel mill if I don't have to!!!  Who's going to blame me for that?

So please be patient with NuForce (well...us, really).  Jason is committed to giving as many of you folks a deal as is financially possible.  Well...better go...I suppose if I get my ass in gear then maybe that will be a few more of you!

Cheers,
-Bob

[TheChairGuy]

Bob,

Thanks for being candid (actually, I've found you to be for some time)...it's quite a refreshing read.

Guys, I think  you may want to note that English isn't Jason's first language, so he is probably trying to adjust to communicating most effectively within it.   It takes a while - it's not the easiest language on earth to learn thru and thru 

[zybar]

Thanks for clarifying.

I wish Bob and Jason success.

George