Decisions: which of these sub-$1000 speakers

powderific · « **on:** 6 Jul 2006, 02:57 am »

I've been using a pair of Zigmahornet full range towers as my main speakers for a little over a year now. They're actually pretty awesome for something I built with a friend for $100 or so, but I'd really like to upgrade. The lower midrange/high low range is thin, and the rest of the midrange, while very nice sounding, is often overstated. I'd like to upgrade to something that does not have these problems, and can reproduce a wide variety of music nicely. I listen to quite a variety of music and like trying new things; right now my playlist has electronic music like Daft Punk and Cinematic Orchestra, some jazz (Charles Mingus and Diana Krall), blues, Led Zepplin, and some metal.

Good response into the lower spectrum would be nice (the zigmahornets actually go quite low, although it's fairly weak), excellent midrange, and I absolutely want to avoid sharp or overstated treble (it makes me want to claw my ears out). I'd like to keep it under $1000, with anything closer to $500 being preferable.That said, here are the speakers I am currently considering:

35F from Selah Audio (in kit form with precut cabinets; I'm fine building things, but can't do any woodworking in my apartment, so I'm limited to gluing things together).

RC3R from Selah (quite a bit more than the 35F, but it evens out with precut cabinets. any thoughts on the better speaker?)

SA-1 from Selah (I'm not sure if this would meet my requirements for bass)

Ohm Walsh 2 with upgraded driver

M60 or M80 from Axiom (the M80 would really stretch my budget though, it might mean waiting 6+ months to get the speakers)

Right now I'm very strongly considering Selah's offerings because they are a more "doable" price for me, and I enjoy building things even if I can't do the actual woodworking myself.

Any suggestions? Experience with the Selah kits?

(edit to add the RC3R)

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 03:55 am »

To better answer your question we need more info....what is your system composed of ? Amp, preamp, receiver ? And...how big is your listening room ?

powderific · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 04:42 am »

Amp: Harmon Kardon HK3480
Source: M-Audio Delta 410, Sony DVP-S360

I wouldn't mind upgrading my amp eventually, with my Zigmahornets I was considering a T-Amp of some variety, but I don't know if that would be an option with the harder to drive speakers I listed above. In any case, my main priority at the moment is speakers.

Here is a diagram of my apartment, the room is 17'x18' with a chunk taken out by the kitchen and listening position roughly in the center:

My couch is centered facing the right wall, and it's back is paralell to the bottom right corner of the kitchen. So my ears are just under 9ft. from the wall in front of the couch. (It's kindof an odd setup so I figured a schematic would help).

edit: I should probably mention that I am in this apartment for school and will probably be living here for only 1-2 more years, so something that would be workable in other situations too would be nice.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 05:17 am »

OK...you own a HK...120 watt receiver. Nice size room. Should have no problem with the speaker's you have selected. I have heard a few of Rick's speaker's, he does nice work. Of the one's you mentioned, I like the RC3R. Thats a good all-around speaker. But that's my opinion....

Watch for other's to comment....good luck !

powderific · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 01:01 pm »

Thanks for the advice, I think the RC3R is definitely a strong contender. One question, what would be a good (but inexpensive) stand for those?

rosconey · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 01:06 pm »

rick does

good work-
i have a pair he designed and made myself-3.5 ways-

might want to take a look into odyssey gear when your ready to upgrade-great match with ricks stuff-

make your own stands-and beards on the front-its just a way of saying have a solid front

powderific · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 04:22 pm »

Can anyone compare the Selah speakers to stuff from RAW Acoustics? I was just looking through their site and the HT3 looked like it might be a good choice.

Al Garay · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 04:53 pm »

Out of Rick's kits, I would go for the Peridot instead of the RC3. The Peridot will fill your large room better than the smaller RC3 and the Seas Excel mid (IMHO) provides more transparent, detailed midrange than the Morel.

Take a close look at the Eton 11.2 3-way. The kit is a little over your price range but it is incredibly well balanced from top to bottom. Does not have the hot tweeter you are concerned about, very nice midrange and solid bass down to mid 20s. It does all types of music (orchestral, jazz, rock) really well. It is a big speaker and will project a large soundstage. If you want more information, contact awm (Andy McIntyre) who has 2 sets (one was mine... and I still regret selling it) along with his SL Orion and Ellis Audio 1801s (many excellent speakers in his house).

Here's the link for the Eton 11.2 available from Madisound:
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=4523625.28257&pid=447

The Eton woofer is very expensive (both drivers cost more than half the cost of the kit) used in $10k+ Avalon speakers.

kfr01 · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 05:33 pm »

On the RAW kits:

I'm a big fan of the Adire XBL^2 drivers RAW's kits use. I don't think you can go wrong. High bandwidth, low distortion. They're worth a listen!

powderific · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 05:47 pm »

Al, the Eton kit looks great (I read a few of awm's posts about them), but I'm trying to factor in construction costs and I think that would push it over too far. The Peridot look awesome as well, but the cabinet designs looks like it might be beyond my meager woodworking skills and I don't know how much having a cabinet made would run. I do agree that the larger speaker would probably suit my room better, but I don't know if I can swing it.

kfr01, thanks for the advice, I see that RAW has a home demo program that might allow me to actually audition them, which would be nice. I don't know if there is really any other way to demo this stuff in Omaha.

kfr01 · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 06:05 pm »

On that note: have you considered the Exodus kits (also using Adire/XBL^2 drivers)?

http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php?cPath=24_92

powderific · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 07:18 pm »

I did look at the exodus kits, they also look like good possibilities. I kindof like the forward facing drivers better, but one problem I have with both RAW and Exodus is that I would prefer that the crossover already be completed (like with Rick's kits). Also, this may seem like a dumb reason for prefering one over the other, but RAW has much easier to follow plans (what can I say, I'm not very good at woodworking!).

kfr01 · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 07:33 pm »

IIRC, diycable.com will provide completed crossovers for a reasonable fee. Raw will likely do the same. Just e-mail or call them.

Also, if you are at all worried about your woodworking skills, take my advice: Start small and cheap. Build some small/cheap bookshelves. You'll learn through experience and the school of hard knocks. Once you are more confident in your skills, go big and expensive. It'll save money, there's less of a chance you'll become frustrated with the entire concept of speaker building, and there'll be a much higher chance of success when you do the big boys.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but I'm sure I would have quit building if I would have started with towers.

powderific · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 08:37 pm »

I've already experienced some of the DIY frustrations, I build my current full range single driver speakers with a friend. We messed up a lot, and definitely learned from it. My experiences with that are a large part of the reason I was focusing on somewhat smaller speakers, along with price (of course). I'm fairly certain I could handle some bookshelf speakers, but if the RAW or exodus kits were that much of an advantage, I could just wait a while and have the same friend help me.

powderific · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Jul 2006, 08:39 pm »

I just stopped by a few audio stores in my area to try things out, and one dealer showed me a pair of Triangle Comete bookshelves that were available in a demo pair for $750. He also had a pair of Canton Ergo center channels that he was willing to sell me for about $1000 that I could just stand up and use like MTM bookshelves. I don't really know anything about Canton or Triangle, would either of these be worthwhile choices? (I didn't get a chance to listen to the canton center channels, but I know it would be a pretty good deal as far as pricing).

Bingenito · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Jul 2006, 10:34 pm »

Based on your room, music specified and what you are looking for in a speaker I would recommend the Selah 35F. I have used this speaker with a various gear and rooms and it always sounds fantastic. The cabinets are also very nicely done.

The speaker sounds smooth and full even at low volumes but it is also very dynamic and has great output capabilities. It is really hard to go wrong in the kit format since it fits in your budget. If you have any specific questions please let me know.

Bryan

kfr01 · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Jul 2006, 10:55 pm »

Despite what I said about the trials and tribulations of DIY, if you -can- DIY, you stand ready to benefit sonically.

I'd put money on the fact that any of the DIY speakers mentioned above would beat (both objectively and subjectively) the Triangle bookshelves or the Canton center. Unless you want the unbeatable fit and finish of a commercial speaker and are -looking- for a tiny bookshelf, don't go with the Triangle.

Also, I don't think it would be a good idea to stand up the Canton center unless it was meant to be used as a vertical MTM. Sometimes speaker designers will voice/design the crossover just for center-channel-horizontal duties.

powderific · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Jul 2006, 11:50 pm »

Thanks for the advice, after looking at the DIY options in my price range compared to the pre-built stuff it seems like they are better in most any way, especially since I don't really care what it looks like (it could be unfinished MDF for all I care, being a single college student lends to a lot of options as far as aesthetics go). I think that the project is just going to have to take more time than I had originally planned, but I'll probably have a significantly better speaker.

Bryan, (or anyone else) the 35F seems to be among the low end products from Rick (like the Hiddenite), can you compare it to the RC3R or Tanzanite? I think that the 35F would give more base than either, but I worry about the overall sound quality being much lower. Perhaps the Carnelian would be better? I listen at fairly moderate levels, so I don't need massive chest thumping, but I do want it to go fairly low. If the 35F compares reasonably well it would be great, as it fits my budget perfectly and would leave plenty of room for cabinet materials and whatnot.

The Peridot seems like the speaker that would meet/exceed all my needs, but the tapered cabinet and higher price throw me off a bit.

Also, I studied the diagram for RAW's HT3 cabinet, and I am confident that I could muddle my way through building it and wind up with something worthwhile. However, based completely on my own gut feeling I think I would prefer Rick's kits. Since Rick doesn't have plans up, can anyone tell me how the cabinet complexity and schematic quality are in comparison?

Thanks again for the advice, not being able to audition the speakers it's very difficult to make a decision.

SET Man · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Jul 2006, 12:43 am »

Quote from: powderific on 7 Jul 2006, 08:37 pm

I've already experienced some of the DIY frustrations, I build my current full range single driver speakers with a friend. We messed up a lot, and definitely learned from it...

Hey!

powderific, those cabs looks pretty good man!

Definately look better than my 6" Fostex based TQWT

I see you are looking for new speaker. I assumed that your small 4" (?) fullrange ain't enough for some type of music right? Well how about bigger fullrange in bigger cabs?

Anyway, if you must move on from fullrange.... since you are already into DIY. There are lots of speaker kits out there like those of which some of the members have mentioned. Also, don't forget those kits from Madisound.

I've never heard them but some of them look interesting. You could buy just parts and make box yourself.

Well, goodluck and keep us posted on how it turn out for you.

Take care,
Buddy

Bingenito · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Jul 2006, 12:44 am »

Quote

Bryan, (or anyone else) the 35F seems to be among the low end products from Rick (like the Hiddenite), can you compare it to the RC3R or Tanzanite? I think that the 35F would give more base than either, but I worry about the overall sound quality being lowe. Perhaps the Carnelian would be better? I listen at fairly moderate levels, so I don't need massive chest thumping, but I do want it to go fairly low. If the 35F compares reasonably well it would be great, as it fits my budget perfectly and would leave plenty of room for cabinet materials and whatnot.

The Peridot seems like the speaker that would meet/exceed all my needs, but the tapered cabinet and higher price throw me off a bit.

For full-range sound I would prefer the 35F over the Tanzanite or RC3R. The RC3R would come closer to the 35F freq. ext but the 35F's dual drivers and larger cabinet give it a full, powerful sound that works great without a subwoofer. This speaker might be inexpensive by most commercial standards but make NO mistake THIS IS NOT A LOW END SPEAKER

. I use it in my reference system with over $25k of front end when my main speakers are not available for use and I cam perfectly happy with the sound. The Peridot would be better then the 35F in terms of overall resolution and output. The Peridot can be made in a regular cabinet to simplify the project.

If my goal was to purchase a very good speaker with some cabinets for about $1k the 35F is the way to go. I can recommend them with confidence.

If I wanted to purchase the what could be the last speaker I would own and build my own cabinets I would go for the Peridot