Great amp recommendations; musical, detailed, quiet

earlmarc · « **Reply #40 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 03:07 pm »

Carlman, the subject title describes the Ref. Series Amps from Belles Audio. I have seen the Belles Ref. 350A on audiogon sell between $2700-$3000 used.

John Casler · « **Reply #41 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 05:03 pm »

Carlman,

I have a client who is looking to upgrade to 2 AMPZilla 2000 Monoblocs and is offering his Son of Ampzilla in your price range.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue20/ampzilla.htm

Carlman · « **Reply #42 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 02:51 am »

Well, this is officially getting difficult. I have heard great things about the AVA Fet Valve Ultra Hybrid Tube Amp, 550EXR... and great things about the 'to be released' AKSA Lifeforce (no price yet). Do I wait? How does the timing work on all of this?

I don't want to call Frank and/or any manufacturer or dealer and say, I'm comparing 4 or 5 amps and want to test drive each one in my system.. and then have to send back 4 out of 5 amps. I don't like it when people are dissapointed. And, I don't know a manufacturer that doesn't think their amp is the best for the money. With dealers it's not as bad since they have demo gear for this purpose. But manufacturers tend to want you to buy it first, then return if you don't like it. That dynamic makes me a little uncomfortable.

I've always heard "you can try it and return if you don't like it" but that to me sounds wrong... Am I the only one on that feels this way?

OH well... not much has been taken off the list... more have been added... back to reading...

-C

zybar · « **Reply #43 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 03:38 am »

Carl,

As long as you are willing to abide by the terms each vendor has in regards to returning a product (i.e. shipping costs, restocking fees, etc...) I don't see any issue with getting multiple amps in for a comparison.

For example, I told Dusty that I would be comparing his D-200's to the DNA-500. If I didn't think the sound was in the same ballpark or better, they were going back to Dusty.

Do what you are comfortable with and just stay within the established parameters - there shouldn't be any problems.

Best of luck.

George

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #44 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 05:11 am »

Quote from: Carlman on 6 Jul 2006, 02:51 am

I've always heard "you can try it and return if you don't like it" but that to me sounds wrong... Am I the only one on that feels this way?

-C

I feel exactly the same....I've not been on a single manufacturer tour for that reason....it just feels like I must either give it a great write-up and/or must buy it. Friends here at AC have graciously loaned me stuff to listen to, and I back, but I don't do the audio 'tour' thing.

I think I've only bought one product from a dealer/manufacturer that I ever sent back...and it was cleaarly a case of defective topology.

In my day 'job', I sell to many retailers with easy return policies, and my stuff is returned for reasons other than size or function or defects...and it's just wrong. I just feel like I shouldn't perpetuate the same wrong with dealers and manufacturers in the audio field.

I'd rather hear them at shows or friends places and read up on them - then decide to purchase with intent of keeping it...tho it doesn't always work out that way.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #45 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 05:23 am »

Quote

I'd rather hear them at shows or friends places and read up on them - then decide to purchase with intent of keeping it...tho it doesn't always work out that way.

Right John....but some equipment is just not available that way...and the best place to hear a piece is "in your system".

By the way....I like audio tours....gets the product out there....and into people's homes to hear. And...some name recognition....

Chris

Carlman · « **Reply #46 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 02:13 pm »

I have to agree with LW... and it raises a good point about online/direct sales. The more I think about it.. how else would most people hear your gear? If you're in location 'A' and you don't have a dealer network, or even a real store front... can you really sell from reviews?

TCG, I totally hear you about perpetuating the behavior you witness in retail... But participating in a tour is not like that. The manufacturer wants it to get out there... I am suspect of direct sales that don't do tours or don't offer gracious return policies because you can't shop at their store, really... you can't even get a taste, it requires full comittment. Still, I have that same sort of nagging feeling that I 'have to' write good remarks about it even when I don't like it. Fortunately, I've heard mostly good stuff, though.

The only things I thought were 'bad' were based on my tastes and they didn't cost anyone anything but a little time.

Anyway... more to your point... Shopping at Wally world (or whatever retail) is different... it's brick and mortar... where you see it, can sit in it, and take it home after a full evaluation. The sad part is when your wife's fat ass doesn't fit and possibly breaks it... then you bring it back with your chubby little fingers clinched demanding a refund... That's a different world and it's the truly ugly side of America. I don't perpetuate that. (BTW, I still have your chair and love it!.. holds up well, year after year!)

Thanks for the good insight. Looks like I should arrange some demo's when I get it narrowed down. I'd like to hear the AVA amp compared to a Mac. I'd like to see if some of the comments I've read here are really repeatable... There are so many amps I wouldn't think I'd like that will either blow me away or meet expectations... It's kind of exciting... July is 'amp month' for me...

-C

scottielee · « **Reply #47 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 02:41 pm »

since i have never heard your speakers, my following suggestions are based on unit reputation and my own instincts:
1. McIntosh MC-275
2. Jeff Rowland Concerto or 201
3. 47 Laboratory Gaincard
my apologies in advance for wasting anybody's time

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #48 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 03:34 pm »

Carl (WolfyChris, any one else);

Trying not to pull this topic too far sideways....

The perpetuated wrong reason for returns of my chairs I was speaking of was the 'test drive' buyer. It's where you run on down to your local Wallyworld, KMart, BJ's Wholesale, Walgreen's, The Sports Authority or whomever chain just prior to your vacations...and return it upon your return for a full refund! That's pretty much what many do with those manufacturers 30 day trail period....except in the case of heavy speakers and amps there is the natural dis-incentive to do it because of the freight back to the maker. If my dang chairs don't measure up for weight carrying capacity of 250 lbs or there is some other oddball defect - they darn well should be returned.

Nonetheless, it strikes a bit too close to home for me, so I avoid the 30 day test drive. I have noticed that Chris Hoff of BPT offers his units in two schemes...one with and one without return priveledges....that's a pretty elegant solution, I think. The difference between them is 15%, but all have 3 year warranties against defects.

A sample from Audiogon:

Quote from: BPT

It can be purchased at $1399 with a 30 day money back return guarantee or at $1189 if you waive the return privilege. Full 3 year warranty included.

I probably, wrongly, lump manufacturers tour into the same pile as 'test drives'....I'll have to re-consider it. After all, how else does a small enterprising manufacturer get noticed.

I'm not surprised that most of what you've heard has been good, Carl. It's a small industry, and not one for creating millionaires, the folks making gear are just music lovers trying to support their habit, I've found. It's no wonder that most of it is good - I've found the same to be true.

Anyhow, good luck on that 'last amp' purchase

You got the disease reeeeeeeal bad, my boy

Frihed91 · « **Reply #49 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 03:49 pm »

Take a look at Blue Circle products. I am not sure if you want a power amp or an integrated. BC has three integrateds that are over 100 Wpc. They are now making a high current integrated amp and they have a beautiful one that has a tube preamp section and SS power section. The BC 22 is a 100 or Wpc SS amp and the BC 24 is a 90 Wpc hybrid. I have their cheapest integrated, the BC, and have goten rave comments both from other audio dealers (like Audio Note) and also at various club meetings. People can't believe this amp cost me only $1200 when they hear it. (It's a bit more expensive now.) They have the 200 series of power amps, but these are like big bucks items.

Anyway, take a look at www.bluecircle.com. The owner/design, Gilbert Yeung, is very accessible and will answer questions. They are easy to do business with and have a very loyal following. Sales are through the company and home dealers, whom you can find out about by emailing/calling the company.

These amps combine almost tube-like musicality with incredible dynamics, speed, and tight, tuneful bass. This is NOT your ordinary SS sound, like Bryston, another much bigger Canadian mfr.

John
Copenhagen

meby · « **Reply #50 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 04:01 pm »

Carlman I would also audition the Ayre amps if you have a chance, they were the best SS amps I have heard in my system when I owned Maggie 1.6s. I have heard Piegas driven with Thor amps many times at one of my local dealers and they sounded amazing.

tvad4 · « **Reply #51 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 04:03 pm »

I'm thankful for the in-home audition offered by Channel Islands, NuForce dealers, Dussun and Moscode. Without these programs, I'd have never considered any of their products, and the re-stocking fee was not an issue to me. I felt no pressure to write favorable comments in exchange for the opportunity, and the owners/dealers had no problems accepting the returns. It all worked out great, IMO.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #52 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 04:25 pm »

Quote from: tvad4 on 6 Jul 2006, 04:03 pm

I'm thankful for the in-home audition offered by Channel Islands, NuForce dealers, Dussun and Moscode. Without these programs, I'd have never considered any of their products, and the re-stocking fee was not an issue to me.

However there are a few companies’ that do not charge a restocking fee! Red Wine Audio offers this on the Signature 30.

tvad4 · « **Reply #53 on:** 6 Jul 2006, 06:10 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 6 Jul 2006, 04:25 pm

Quote from: tvad4 on 6 Jul 2006, 04:03 pm
I'm thankful for the in-home audition offered by Channel Islands, NuForce dealers, Dussun and Moscode. Without these programs, I'd have never considered any of their products, and the re-stocking fee was not an issue to me.

However there are a few companies’ that do not charge a restocking fee! Red Wine Audio offers this on the Signature 30.

To be precise neither Dussun, Moscode nor the NuForce dealer charged me a restocking fee, and Dusty waived his restocking fee when I auditioned his amps a second time around (but the D200 I was auditioning were demos, not brand new).

Al Garay · « **Reply #54 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 03:19 am »

You should set your expectations clearly. Does this really need to be your last set of amplifiers? Why put extra pressure? Give yourself a chance to go a different direction. You seem to be searching for the ultimate solid state amp that is as musical as the best tube amps. It can be frustrating. Maybe Frank's AVA 550 Ultra will be the ticket. Otherwise, go the other direction and find a tube amp that has the dynamics and low-end equaling the top solid state amps.

As much as I liked my AKSA amps, the Transcendent Sound T8 OTL amps have more PRAT and musical enjoyment (plenty of dynamics and low-end punch to push 86db speakers). The T8 has been discontinued. So you may be able to find good deals. It has been replaced by The Beast, 165 watts into 8ohm. http://www.transcendentsound.com/index.html

I would also give serious consideration to ManleyLabs amps such as The Snapper. http://www.manleylabs.com/hifimain99.html

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #55 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 06:02 am »

Quote

As much as I liked my AKSA amps, the Transcendent Sound T8 OTL amps have more PRAT and musical enjoyment (plenty of dynamics and low-end punch to push 86db speakers). The T8 has been discontinued. So you may be able to find good deals.

Interesting amp Al...found some info...here.......and...here....

I like the part about lower heat than most. I know Carl's not looking for a spaceheater...its not winter yet.

Al Garay · « **Reply #56 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 06:16 am »

Yeah... it's all about which compromises you want to make. The Transcendent OTL and Manley will generate a lot more heat than the AVA Ultra or AKSA Lifeforce (which sounds promising especially if you can buy a used AKSA to upgrade). My friend Andy who has the Transcendent Sound T8 has never mentioned any issues with heat dissipation and power usage. He has big Conrad Johnson amps that have been sitting idle since he got the OTLs.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #57 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 03:27 pm »

Quote from: Frihed91 on 6 Jul 2006, 03:49 pm

Take a look at Blue Circle products.

I agree...

Carlman · « **Reply #58 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 05:23 pm »

The Blue Circle gear certainly looks good... and I'll bet sounds incredible. In fact, I don't think any of the amps mentioned in this thread so far would sound 'bad'. I'm at the point to where I need to get some amps in the house and start comparing.

I have a demo of a McIntosh MA6300 coming, the CI Audio D200's, and the Butler now. I've ruled out the Son of Ampzilla because it was compared to Nuforce... which I know I don't care for... and I've added another McIntosh, the MC252... it falls right in the middle of my range and can be found used for a good price.... but how does it sound? I may have to find out.

The TacT will be back home next week with all of Anthony's mods performed. I can go balanced or single-ended.

More later...

SuperMart · « **Reply #59 on:** 7 Jul 2006, 08:51 pm »

Hi Carl,

Keep the Aksa Lifeforce on your short list. Yesterday I picked up my Lifeforce 55 - the first one off the production line. It really is a transformation. I've never heard such a dynamic sound.It clearly outperforms the 100N+ and yet the output is 55wpc. I can't begin to imagine what the Lifeforce 100 will sound like.

It's the first piece of audio gear I've owned where my wife has come into the room and sat down on the couch next to me and said "It's like a concert in here".

Good luck with your quest.

Cheers,