TX103 / MU Stepups - copper and silver listenning impressions.

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John Chapman

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Hello!

This question comes up quite a bit! I finally got 2 pairs of step-ups here for use in local testing - One Silver and One Copper.  I will be listenning over the next while in even more systems but having now compared in a few different systems and since the listenning results pretty much match my impressions of them a few years back when we first compared I thought I'd post my impressions at this point.

Bit-O-History......

Way back when we made the first MU step-ups I had S&B spin one pair out in silver. They are not new and do not replace the copper tx103's. Originally the silver units were listed on the web page along with copper but when listenning tests indicated that silver was not a hands down upgrade in every case and given the large price difference for the silver units I took them off the web page. I hate spening other peoples money....... Over time I have done silvers for quite a few customers and they always reported great results - although very few were able to compare with copper. We went along like this for some time until a few month back when Arthur Salvatore of www.high-endaudio.com posted about them.  I then decided to put them back on the page. Arthur spends tons of time experimenting with things audio and he liked the silver units very much. He was very fammiliar with the copper units as well. Since Arthur had my own silver units there at his place I went ahead and made up some fresh silver MU's along with a fresh pair of coppers.  These were burned in and I have had a few days of playing now. This brings us up to today.


The silvers have a really great clarity and silky smoothness but they seem to have less weight than the copper units. I think the word that comes to mind is 'potential'. The silvers have the 'potential' to better the coppers but only if they fit your system. Adjusting loading can tune them but if your system ballance does not suit the silvers then I suspect that only using loading to tune things will possibly push the loading outside the ideal for the cartridge - it's too much to ask cart loading to tune the tonal ballance from where it naturally falls. From listenning so far I'd say if the system has a robust low end and a sense of weight itself then the silvers can fit in just fine. If the system is a bit dark then the silvers sense of clarity can open that up. You can already see where this is heading I am sure..... If the system is a bit lean in the low end then I would say coppers are more likely to drop in and fit the tonal ballance. That is why I say the silvers have the potential to outperform coppers but they are NOT a case of 'spend more $ get better sound'. 


This impression is what led me to remove them from my web page originally - I could feel some customers struggling with not buying the more expensive option. I'll do my best to summarize. If your system has a low end that is robust or in particular 'really robust' I think the silvers can drop in just fine. If your system is just barely getting by down low (like many full range driver systems would be) then I think the coppers are more likely to just drop in and fit the system ballance. Given the large price jump to go silver I won't be 'pushing' the silvers - not that I ever really push too much! I will be leaving them on my page because as Arthur's experience shows they have the 'potenial' to outperform coppers in the right system and with sufficient time given to tuning the system.


More later when I hear'em in a few more systems. Also comming is a fresh compare of silver vs. copper tx102 based pre-amp systems.


Thanks!

John







« Last Edit: 24 Jun 2006, 11:54 pm by John Chapman »

drcruz

Quick questions:

It sounds like if you want something headache free (no need to tweak) - Copper is a good bet, is this true?

Also, does this goes over to the TVC's, Silver has the "potential" to outperform the Coppers, but for a headache free TVC - Copper is a good bet, is this true?

John Chapman

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Hello!

Well I would not call the silvers a Headache! You have got it I think though - the coppers are going to drop in and work really well in the average system.  The silvers (as long as the system is not too light down low) will very likely drop in and work out great too. It may take a bit of playing to get the system ballance in a spot that lets the silvers really show their stuff.

The TX102 silvers DO NOT have this same tendency - I have a hard time distinguishing the difference in the low end and I find a bit more of a sense of clarity in the mids with silvers to be the difference on tx102's. The TX103 silvers came after the TX102 silvers and I was surprised to hear the difference in tonal ballance they displayed between copper and silver. I am going to do a fresh compare in a few systems once I get caught up on building TAP units here and get some testing time.  In my system I prefer TX102 silvers but I need to do more testing to give a full sonic description. As a note in my system here the TX103 silvers drop in and do a great job - but the 15" TAD 1601's I am using for the low end right now are not lacking in sonic impact at all! I need to play with them both here some more to say for sure the silvers are the best sonically for me but they certainly do fine. In other systems I have compared silver tx103 vs. copper tx103 it is clear the extra weight that the copper units have is missed when switching to silver.

Long winded answer........ Sorry......

The above MU/Tx103 copper vs. silver should be taken as preliminary - I'll post more once I get to play in even more systems. Also we have a few copper users around that will be trying silvers soon so I'll get some feedback from them as well. This is the fun stuff.


Thansk!

John



drcruz

Quote
...The TX102 silvers DO NOT have this same tendency - I have a hard time distinguishing the difference in the low end and I find a bit more of a sense of clarity in the mids with silvers to be the difference on tx102's...

Good stuff, this is the kind of info I was interested in.

Thanks for response  :)
« Last Edit: 25 Jun 2006, 02:27 am by drcruz »

guest2521

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How does silver match up against with copper in the tvc?

I am currently using copper for both.

John Chapman

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Hello!

I'll be comparing silver and copper TVC's (TX102's) in the comming few weeks. I won't comment until I can hear them in a few different systems since just my 2 systems here are not enough in my mind to really describe how they might fit into different systems.

Thansk!

John


tbabb

What about the possibly of a demo Silver to be sent out?   Let users keep it for a week and return it for a refund if they don't like it. 

It would help establish a base of configurations the Silver is good in. I for one very am curious how it would fit in my system as compared to the Copper, but don't want to be stuck with one if sounds lean. 

Food for thought

Tim




John Chapman

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Hello!

I have been thinking of ways of having demo units that might work out. Years back I had some tx102 pre-amps on tour and that was less than successful..... Many told me I was crazy and it would not work out but I boldly forged ahead with it. As the tour progressed the state of the units deteriorated. Some folks took many months before I could get them to ship the units to the next customer. Eventually they were so far gone one unit had the lid removed and it was absolutely stuffed with packing foam chips. I am sure as the tour progressed that more than one potential customer was turned off by the state of the 'demo' unit that arrived so I put the tour out of it's misery. The other turn off was that some folks who requested a demo unit had no intention of purchasing one - a fellow even boasted of this online in a forum much to my delight. Most people were great but it only took a few to make it painfull. I guess I am rambling but wanted to pass on the reason I have not jumped head first into another demo tour. I just don't have enough margins to write off products every x months and don't want to raise pricing to compensate for that kind of thing.

With all products I sell if they don't work out for customers I will always take them back - I would not want anyone stuck with a product that did not work out. For customers close enough to me here I can drop by for a demo but that does not work for most folks.

The Step-ups are enough of  a system dependant thing that I am thinking of making a special packing case for a pair of copper and a pair of silver each with 1:10/1:20 gain switches. Then once we figure they would be a good fit for a system and an order is placed I'd send the package with both pairs to the customer. Once they decide of a preference for copper or silver (and gain levels) then they'd ship the units on to the next customer who has placed an order. It would add a bit-o-cost for shipping with insurance to the next customer but it would remove some of the 'which is best for me' discussions and associated fear.  I have about a month to go before I will finally be all caught up on orders (and will then have TAP pre-amps stock here) and at that time I will see if I can talk myself into it.


Many Thansk!

John
« Last Edit: 16 Jul 2006, 02:17 am by John Chapman »