[bushbison]

Hi everyone, just installed my cdwg’s and “dehorned” the tweeter on my RM30’s.  Feedback:
1-   Waveguides are as ordered, but probably look better; very nice and simple.  Great packaging.
2-   Thanks for the dehorning kit, Brian; though I had to search for instructions!!!
3-   Take GREAT care in dehorning the tweeter, especially if you are relatively inexperienced in these things as I am.  MAKE SURE YOU TAPE OFF THE TWEETER, as instructed!!!!  Those little Allen wrenches fly off toward the magnet very easily and can give you palpations if you see it happen; I do NOT think this could be a warrantee claim … oh, for those who HAVE warrantees (I bought mine used), does this procedure void said warrantee?  Also please not that this procedure makes the tweeter MUCH MORE PRONE TO “INJURY” as the screen will be removed, and the ribbon is left unprotected.  As well, for those who like their speakers to look like well-honed pieces of art, the new, dehorned tweeter cover is not exactly beautiful and looks a bit rough; sorry but true.
4-   O.K., feedback on the SOUND:
a)   To ME, the dehorning makes the LARGEST difference and REALLY clears up the “presence”; even though I really love the ribbon tweeter ( I also have it in a set of Aurums for my small room / stereo / home studio set up), I always found the VERY high treble to be somewhat reticent and very mildly distorted.  Now they are MUCH smoother with better range.  I am comparing this to the seamless high end I used to hear on my Newform Research speakers (R.I.P.), which I have to admit, up until this point I missed with the VMPS’s.  Does this have as much to do with the tweeter screen being removed as the de-horning??  John??  Brian??
b)   The CDWG: looks great, especially as it covers up the not-so-great looking tweeter cover.  The CDWG does do its job, as advertised: the dispersion is + + better and quite wide (I DO have a rather small apartment living room); the sound is quite consistent and is at LEAST twice the size of the sweet spot without.  My largest issue is that the mids are now not NEARLY as dynamic as they were; turning the adjustment on the back of the speaker does NOT solve this and just gives MORE of a “cupped hand” sound to the mids.  I do not like entering into electronic EQ to solve this (I prefer to use the “pure” mode in my processor), and as I see it (or hear it) I myself prefer to tune the speaker and room instead. So: when I have others over for movies, or group listening, I will put on the WG’s; when dedicated listening with myself or my one other person, I will leave it off.  Any other solutions to this issue, Brian or John??  Would “carving out the foam around the mid panels on the WG help??

[John Casler]

Hi everyone, just installed my cdwg’s and “dehorned” the tweeter on my RM30’s.  Feedback:
1-   Waveguides are as ordered, but probably look better; very nice and simple.  Great packaging.
2-   Thanks for the dehorning kit, Brian; though I had to search for instructions!!!
3-   Take GREAT care in dehorning the tweeter, especially if you are relatively inexperienced in these things as I am.  MAKE SURE YOU TAPE OFF THE TWEETER, as instructed!!!!  Those little Allen wrenches fly off toward the magnet very easily  ...

Great write up!!

Glad you were able to get the instructions for "dehorning" from Brian's stickie, since I have not done it yet.

So for those who have the kit, please go to the stickies and look for the one on "dehorning".

Your emphasis on making sure to tape off the tweeter is also important.  Please "RE-READ" this.  It does not say take the tape off, it says to "TAPE OFF" the tweeter so that objects (especially metal objects) are not drawn into the ribbon and damaging it.

Most do not know how "STRONG" the magnet is on that tweeter.  To see what I mean, take a metal object (one that you can hold onto firmly) and move it toward the stock SCREEN COVERED tweeter and you will likely be amazed at the force.

SO PLEASE USE CAUTION!!

As far as the screen being responsible for a clearer treble???  Hmmmm.  I guess if you have sensitive hearing, then any and all obstruction in front of the ribbon "could" cause sonic alteration.

Could this be the "next tweak"???

The dynamics of the mids stay the same, except 1.5 db down in SPL.  Now the pots will only allow so much adjustment and that is why B, requires a PR change to also attenuate the woofs, to match all the levels.

Did you install the PR swap?  If not, that might be what isn't allowing you to get the balance you're looking for.

When the PRs are changed out and the pots are then adjusted up, the balance is then correct, which should give you back the dynamics your missing.  If you did the PR swap and it is still missing, then you need to talk to B, when he returns after the 20th.

I don't suggest any "foam carving" since the foam is to combat reflection back to the ribbon drivers which would introduce distortion.

You might also temporarily try the "high boy" tweak (raising the RM30s) about 6-8 inches which also reduces the bass output,(by virtue of less floor reinforcement of the bass)  and puts your ear in position to receive from all 3 neopanels in a mini-Line Array type acoustic energy, synergy.

I didn't find that the HFs were reduced by doing this either, and with the WG working with the Tweeter too, it should sound like a millon

Thanks for the early report.

[bushbison]

Thanks for the quick reply, John.  I really do hear a difference w/o the tweeter screen … I hope I’m not losing it!!!!
The sound difference in the mids may be better described as a lack of "air" or "tactile-ness"??!  
Anyway, I assume by PR you mean Passive Radiators??  And is the $125.00 price for all speakers, or each??  Can I order this from you??  And can a tech-illiterate like me install ‘em??

[John Casler]

Thanks for the quick reply, John.  I really do hear a difference w/o the tweeter screen … I hope I’m not losing it!!!!
The sound difference in the mids may be better described as a lack of "air" or "tactile-ness"??!  
Anyway, I assume by PR you mean Passive Radiators??  And is the $125.00 price for all speakers, or each??  Can I order this from you??  And can a tech-illiterate like me install ‘em??

Do know that you "cannot" A/B a speaker by simply removing the the CDWG, and then placing it back on.  Two thing happen.

1) the volume swings up and down at least 1.5 DB, and
2) the cabinet refraction/gain contributes to that "air" you are talking about, so without carefull level matching to the "A" and the "B", they will sound VERY different.

At CES, I was able to (before the show opened in the morning) acheive some very high SPL's and all the "special" details were there.

That said, one also has to recognize that increasing directivity and dispersion will also create additional "room" related reflections that "unmasked" speakers do not have, since the tweeter and Neo's are very directional.

These reflections "contrary" to popular opinion, will "smooth" the speakers sound a bit, unless played rather loud or nearfeild.

The great thing is, that now almost all preferences can be addressed. as well as listening and room situations.

You are correct that PR = Passive Radiator.

Yes $125 is for all four (for a pair of RM30's)

and

Yes they can be ordered through me, B, or any dealer

If you can use a screw driver, you should be able to replace them.  It is a simple "unscrew" and remove (no wires) and place the new on and add the scres back.

[BrunoB]

a) To ME, the dehorning makes the LARGEST difference and REALLY clears up the “presence”; even though I really love the ribbon tweeter ( I also have it in a set of Aurums for my small room / stereo / home studio set up), I always found the VERY high treble to be somewhat reticent and very mildly distorted. Now they are MUCH smoother with better range. I am comparing this to the seamless high end I used to hear on my Newform Research speakers (R.I.P.), which I have to admit, up until this point I missed with the VMPS’s. Does this have as much to do with the tweeter screen being removed as the de-horning?? John?? Brian?? ...

I have been enjoying a "de-horned" tweeter for about two years. Nice to read that you like it. I believe that the smoothing is due the removal of the horn. According to my ears, de-horning + TRT Dynamicaps + 5.6 MHz Sharp Digital Amp = treble nirvana.

My largest issue is that the mids are now not NEARLY as dynamic as they were; turning the adjustment on the back of the speaker does NOT solve this and just gives MORE of a “cupped hand” sound to the mids.

You might want to check if you have wool stuffing behind the midrange panels. Not enough stuffing might induce "cupped hand" sound.

Bruno

[Brian Cheney]

The "cupped hand" sound is due to the change in midrange dispersion pattern from the CDWG.  We now do a "passive CD EQ" to correct for this but I have yet to figure out how to do this in the field.  Watch this space for further news!

[bushbison]

Thanks Brian and crew .. please keep me posted ... hey, at least I'm not blowing sunshine up your, well you know where ... I'm just a REAL critical listener!!!

Strange, as we speak, I am listening to my RM30's with the waveguides and they sound o.k. .... I'm only using a digital sat. signal - Baroque- (Starchoice up here in Canada)  .. but less so RIGHT now with my dedicated listening material .. (hey, I'm sorry, I'm a SACD and DVD-Audio fan, for you LP people .. to each their own)!!  I'll continue to tweak the settings and may try the "woofers out" positioning ....I also have quite a close listening position ("triangle" setup of about 9 feet a side) so that could effect the sound, I'm sure ... bass for now is too "boomy" and not defined enough for me YET .. but I SHOULD mention, thus far my VMPS' are MUCH more forgiving on ALL music formats than my Newforms were; they were great for jazz, classical and acoustic but NOT for rock .... and even w/out the waveguides, my VMPS's have a larger sweet spot  ... I'll continue to tweak ..please, if you are reading this, note that I am VERY picky and LOVE very neutral and revealing speakers, rather than "musical" speakers that impart their sound ON the music .. ..

Hey Brian, how about something to cover-up my now U-G-L-Y tweeter!!!!!   Help a Canuck brother out!!  Anyone else out there using B&G Corp R-18i's for surrounds???  I like 'em (they can go fairly close behind my close listening position)  .. but may have to add some super-tweeters on to them yet ...... these?:
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=77.1 

[rblnr]

I use the 18is and find them to be a pretty good match for my 40s and LRC.  Much easier to place for me than 626rs.

[bushbison]

Do you wall mount or stand mount your r-18's??  Direct or indirect sound?? Ever feel the need to flesh 'em out w/ supertweeters??  Mine are stand mounted for now.

[rblnr]

Mine are wall-mounted, which was part of the appeal in their selection.  Generally, I use them w/the ribbon oriented for direct sound, although on older soundtracks, I might rotate it for diffusion.

I haven't felt much need to add a supertweeter.  For film soundtracks, even if I was missing a bit of very high frequency info. from surrounds, I wouldn't care that much.  And I haven't noticed anything egregious on multichannel music..

[bushbison]

Thanks rblnr; I READ that the r-18's don't sound great wall mounted; I am in an house apartment and I do not intend to slap the bG's on the wall just yet, as i don't want to make a mess.  As well, the walls are somewhat hollow and I do not want further resonance upstairs!!!!  I WOULD like to experiment with using 5 18's as a surround system, w/ supertweeters and a fast sub (rel?) added and compare that to the rm-30's (or maybe more correctly the 626's); I'd be curious if there is REALLY about 2000.00 - 3000.00$ difference in SOUND; REALLY a difference .. pretty hard to blind sound test in an apartment!!!  I like to listen with my ears, not with my eyes and how much I spent, if that makes any sense .....still on the battle here to tighten up the bass of my rm-30's ... the mids and treble HAVE cleaned up, but like I previously stated, I prefer the RM's w/o the Waveguides and am willing to sacrifice the improved disperssion for what I HEAR as better response through out the frequency range ... would still like to try Brians's passive e.q. option but truthfully am not willing to spend + + money to try "it" out and find out it does not improve what I am listening for!!!

[rblnr]

My RM40s are far superior to the 18is, as they should be for the money.  But the 18is work perfectly well w/my 40s and LRC in a surround setup.  A friend has 626rs w/an  LRC, and 18is for surround.  Again, the VMPS are better, and again, they should be for the money.

The R18i is made to be wall-mounted, you couldn't use it on a stand.  What you read doesn't make sense.

[bushbison]

I will reply on the in-field xo's as soon as I get them; thanks Brian; good to know you care about your product.

[bushbison]

..Wow.. you guys out there really ARE hard-core modifiers!  I really can't justify constantly modifying the speakers at cost, for small benefits (I don't think I wold get my money back if I decided to sell, especially being in Canada), and like I said I really prefer he sound without the waveguides; I will only use them if I have a FEW people over for movies.  I can' justify spending 100's of dollars (passive radiators, new meg woofers, xo's, etc.) with the hope that the waveguides sound better! 
However, I did the woofers facing out routine, and this seemed to "firm up" the bass ... I have been away out of the country for about 3 weeks, and when I get back home soon, I'll do another listen.  If the sound is not where I want it I may have to go back to another manufacturer.  We'll see ... however, there may be some rm30's for sale in Canada in the next month or so!!