Affordable, higher-power SET monoblocks

PaulFolbrecht · « **on:** 6 Jun 2006, 09:23 pm »

If the analog switching amps I'm trying don't float my boat completely (or even if they do), I may want to finally try a SET amp, preferable monoblocks, if I can find something reasonable and used.

I would need something with at least 20WPC that retails for no more than $4K/pair (thus $2-$2.5K used). Prefer 845 to 300B. Does anything like that come to mind?

Thanks in advance.

dado5 · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Jun 2006, 11:14 pm »

Art Audio Carrisa. $4K new. 16 Watts. Stereo

ASL 805 DT. $3.5K new. 50 Watts. Monoblocks.

ASL 845 DT $4K new. 22 Watts. Monoblocks.

Almarro A318a $1.5K new. 18 Watts. Stereo

That's a start

toobluvr · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jun 2006, 11:18 pm »

I'm selling a pair of 845 monos:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1154299698

very nice sounding amps in VG condition.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Jun 2006, 05:29 pm »

The ASLs do look very nice and I'm considering buying tooblurs (just have too much stuff at the moment or it'd be a done deal).

But, any other suggestions?

Any thoughts on whether the ASLs can handle my 88db Gallo Ref 3s? They are 8 ohms nominal but I"ve never seen their imp. curve. Another 22W triode amp (Cayin 88) drove them quite well.

Thanks again for any further thoughts or pointers.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 03:41 pm »

You could skip the tubes completely and get a Sugden stereo power amp -- 25 wpc class A. Just think, no more sonic degradation as the tubes wear out. And it's only $1500. Research the company, I think you'll be impressed. Their special edition integrated amp is rated class A in the most recent Stereophile recommended list.

http://stanalog.stores.yahoo.net/a2stpoam.html

If you really want tubes, then visit the Decware site:

http://www.decware.com/newsite/mainmenu.htm

Good luck,

Bob

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 04:37 pm »

Paul, I have a surplus pair of ASL Explorer 805 DTs*, not yet listed for sale on A-goN. They're 50 Watts per chassis and had NO trouble driving my 86dB-sensitive Quad 989s full-range in my largish (c. 3200CF) room. This amp uses just 3 tubes, a 12AX7, a 6L6/EL34 driver (wired in triode, of course), and the 805 output tube. 805s are available new, used, and NOS and are affordable.

Mine have been improved substantially, I have lots of info including pics available, and they're definitely in your price range.

See http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/304antique/index.html for a review. E-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net if you're interested.

* I replaced them with a pair of ASL Hurricanes that I run in triode to drive my 84dB-sensitive Eminent Technology LFT-8s.

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 05:30 pm »

Id look for a used pair -fits the budget and the build quality and sound is exemplary.

Transformer coupled parallel single-ended triode monobloc amplifiers, 30 watts Class A .

Brad · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 05:37 pm »

Bob - don't be a tube hater

Decware makes some really good amps that are a terrific value, but nothing even close to 20wpc

The 805 or 845 tube looks like the right way to go.
Some good suggestions here already.

Dmason · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 06:44 pm »

For more power, the Russian transmitter tubes are pretty hard to ignore, and enjoy simple implementation. So, for more power, I would look very hard at the 6C33C, which means the Almarro 318B, which happens to sound fabulous. Its looks don't exactly suck either. Viewed this way, the Almarro 318 stands alone.

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 07:13 pm »

Dmason

I really enjoy your omega/darstar posts so dont take this the wrong way. The Joules also use a piar of 2 - 6C33CB’s per side. Its a very cool tube. Also used i believe by BAT, audio mirror and Lamm-as well as your suggested almaro

So i dont actually believe the almaro "stands alone" unless i misunderstand your post. Of course you could be saying that the almaro stands alone as a 6C33CB amp with a real world price....In which case your are totally correct

Just for the record I would consider buyng the almaro for my office but since i use the joule 6C33CB amps at home i like to mix it up already.

This tube-IMHO does get the flava of set with some power....

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: Brad

Bob - don't be a tube hater

Decware makes some really good amps that are a terrific value, but nothing even close to 20wpc

Brad, I'm not a tube hater, just a realist. I have a Decware amp sitting beside me in my office system that I listen to 8 hours each work day.

This Decware model is rated at 26 wpc:

http://www.decware.com/newsite/TORII.htm

Regarding the ASL Explorer 805, I remember that review in Stereophile. How they sell any of them is beyond me when it measures so poorly. It makes barely one watt with distortion at 1%. To get its rated 50 watts, you have to suffer through 10% distortion. Tack that onto the several % distortion the best speakers produce and you are no longer hearing the source.

Wouldn't a class A solid state design from Firstwatt or Sugden be a much wiser choice?

-- Bob

Dmason · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 07:43 pm »

Kbuzz

You are unbelievably offensive!!

What I meant was, in the cost-effective, minimal implementation non parallel single ended sweeps, the Almarro SET318 @ ~18 watts, stands pretty much by itself. I don't think for example I could recommend $20,000 Lamm monoblocks as a good value. In fact, Jay Fisher and I both preferred the humble little ClariT with the FE168ESS horns over the Lamms, it simply sounded better. Having said that, I am amazed at how good the Almarro 318 AND 205 sound. All that other overbuilt, over-designed, power-freebasing, heat-billowing, dolly-wheeled, bigger-is-better stuff is good ol' fashioned 100% all American bullshit, as far as I am concerned, whose ulterior motive is mo' money, not music. You need -simple- for music.

My real point is the relatively simple requirements for 6C33C implementation, and it sounds really, REALLY good! A big 18 wpc of SET charms for $1500 all handmade in nice a la Nippon joinery? Can't beat that. Killer. If I needed some more single ended juice, that would be it. This is an endorsement.

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 08:00 pm »

I agree totally with both your post and your general opinions about overbuilt gear!

Keep up the great reviews on your audio journey

Brad · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 09:03 pm »

Hey Bob - just razzing you a little.

Tubes can be a phenomenal pain, but I think they are worth it for serious listening.

I didn't realize Decware was up to 25 watts
That Torii should be worth a listen in this requirement.

A zen would be a great office system for low to mid volume listening.
I use a Tivoli Model One driven by iTunes from a Mac mini - a little more modest.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 11:22 pm »

Bob: "Regarding the ASL Explorer 805, I remember that review in Stereophile. How they sell any of them is beyond me when it measures so poorly. It makes barely one watt with distortion at 1%. To get its rated 50 watts, you have to suffer through 10% distortion. Tack that onto the several % distortion the best speakers produce and you are no longer hearing the source."

Bob, did it occur to you that we buy them to LISTEN to them, NOT to measure them? SETs have a well-deserved reputation of being probably the most-musical-sounding amps available. Connected to a reasonably sensitive (or even some NOT-reasonably-sensitive) speakers, SETs do a fabulous job of reproducing the MUSIC.

Of course you're welcome to your opinion, but I suggest you be a little more open-minded.

JoshK · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jun 2006, 11:43 pm »

I honestly don't care about one technology over the other....too much. I have only heard less than 3 SS amps, I really liked. I have liked some tube amps and some "digital" amps though. I think its more about taking care, and not profit making short cuts that makes a difference. Typically big name hi-fi gear take more short cuts than care.

The Almarro looks like real value, ditto the little T-amps. This even though I would probably go my own route. I am planning to implement a PP 6C33C driven by Siemen C3g's, with phase splitting done by input tx. This is a stepping stone to ultimately building my own Karna's.

It seems the #1 thing done wrong by most commercial tube amps is either driving them inadequately, so they can claim only 2 stages. Second, would probably be driving them with 12A_7 or using 6DJ3 family as input. Unfortunately these are the easily sourceable, inexpensive natural choices....which makes me a firm believer of DIY when it comes to tubes. But that is a whole 'nother ball of wax...

Dmason · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Jun 2006, 01:53 am »

Josh

I couldnt agree more with you on the matter of this ubiquity and the 12XXX tubes. Miniature sound from miniature triode tubes. When you start using full size octal based dual triodes (like the ones in the Almarro 318) then you get BIG sound. The 318 sounds bigger by far than the BAT or the Lamm, which sounds anemic, nasal, and hi-fi. The Almarro clearly addressed The Music. The Japs get this concept. The Americans get Bigger is Better, More Expensive is Better, My-Fi.

I also agree that when you really get down to it with tubes, it is DIY. It is ALL about implementation. Oh and good power supplies. There are soooooooooo many spendy tube amplifiers sporting garbage Tx that they don't want you to know about. You should hear a fully tricked out Bottlehead SEX amp with Magnequest and good caps. THee High End doesnt want you to know about stuff like that either. This is why Louis and Vinnie turn so many heads at these audio shows. All about the music.

www.dynakitparts.com for great tube value.

wafermadness · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Jun 2006, 03:54 am »

Here is a recent thread...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=28015&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10

Great for the guy who is "swamped" with orders, lousy for the guy who has known him for almost 3 frickin' years and is trying to get a pre-amp built since March. I bought the 15w/ch SET July 2003 from him and would eventually like at least one more for bi-amping.

Peter McAlister should cut his smoke breaks by 50% and cut his sleep time down to 3-4 hrs/night and maybe he could crank out more product!
All sarcasm aside, Peter is a fanatic about tubes and tells it like it is. I respect the quality and performance of his products and his tireless ability to educate people (myself included) in the wondrous possibilities of musical reproduction using vacuum tubes.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Jun 2006, 04:16 am »

Hey, THANKS a ton to everyone for the suggestions. More research to do!!

It always bugs me when I think I know all the players in this hobby and then discover (again) that I was flat-wrong. Although I have never looked seriously at SET gear again so perhaps I can be excused here...

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Jun 2006, 05:05 am »

Quote from: Brad

Hey Bob - just razzing you a little.

Tubes can be a phenomenal pain, but I think they are worth it for serious listening.

I didn't realize Decware was up to 25 watts
That Torii should be worth a listen in this requirement.

A zen would be a great office system for low to mid volume listening.
I use a Tivoli Model One driven by iTunes from a Mac mini - a little more modest.

I know, Brad. I didn't mean to come across as offended or anything.

The Zen drives a M&K 2.1 nearfield monitor/sub system. It definitely has made going to work much easier.