RM30's have arrived and I'm running 'em in.

OTL · « **on:** 24 May 2006, 01:53 am »

Early, first impressions:

Please keep in mind my gear has been powered off for about 3 months and just now beginning to settle down and smooth out after 4 hours of "exercising" the new surrounds.

The Digital stuff takes 45 mins to begin to settle in and is OK after 2 hours, but really needs a full day to chase the gremlins away. The amps are MOSFET and require a day or two to be at their best. So.....

- Damn good thing these things so well finished and hansome. They're not particularly small and are now planted on some prime real estate in my living room. The piano black finish is very well done. Kudos!

- You've got to toe these babies in. Way in! Sitting 8 - 10 feet out, 35 inches high at the ear. Speakers about 6.5 feet apart, @5 foot from rear wall to back of speaker. Room is 24 foot long, with a goofy, open floor plan, 38 foor wide at it's widest, 13 feet at narrowest.

- The CDWG's work very well. Although there's a very definite sweet spot, the overall sound in the room is amazingly even from top to bottom.
Image height is awsome, but the jurys out on width until my DAC and amps completely warm up.

- Bass and mid-bass is punchy, articulate and can really follow a tune. I hope my neighbors are diggin' Sade as much as we are right now.

- Turn the volume knob clockwise and there is not a hint of strain or compression until the amps run out of gas. That's @ 350 watts with my rig and at these extreme levels the sound is still effortless. These babies REALLY like to sing, while still quite nice at lower volume settings.

- Tremendous inner detail coupled with a quick, responsive dynamic range. The upside is that the music has more "jump" and conveys tons more information to the listener. Downside on this is that I've been uncovering hidden warts and stuff in recordings I've been listening to for decades.

Here's a wart, uncovered. Rickie Lee Jones' 1st album, to which I've been listening to for over 25 years. The song ""On Saturday Afternoons in 1963". In the third line,...."If grown ups could LAUGH this slow"....there is NOW an incredibly obvious tape edit, with a considerable level mismatch beginning at LAUGH. Arggggh! Once you know it's there.....it's sooo hard to not stare at that pimple on your forehead, but after all it IS there.

- Just switched to Horace Silver and man does that piano sound just like a piano. And the trumpet cries! Woodblocks sound like wood on wood. Just wonderful. (Didn't Steely Dan have some balls stealing that opening bass line! )

- The RM30's sound very close to a pair of Stax headphones without sounding too relaxed. If you've ever listened to a good pair of Stax with a good amp, this is very high praise. I now have this sound in my living room.

- There's a bit of chestiness in kick drum and snare. Will have to wait through break in and tuning before saying more.

All told, I'm very pleased, enjoying the hell out of my new speakers. Things just keep sounding better and better with time.....and the significant other is all smiles again! And, as we all know that's a very good thing, with serious implications.

Thanks B! John and Scott too.

Listen, share and enjoy.

Mike B.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 May 2006, 02:03 am »

You did remember to take the film covers off the tweeters, right?

I have found there is an optimum toe-in angle for each room. Toe in controls the amount of reflected energy off side walls, and the amount of overlap of the two 180 degree dispersion patterns. Try changing toe-in about 1" at a time in either direction, in or out. In my room toe in is optimum with the speakers crossfiring about 2-3ft in front of me.

The speakers will relax after a day or two. They are pretuned and will require very little change in level control or PR mass loading.

I'm glad you're enjoying them already.

ted_b · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 May 2006, 02:47 am »

Glad to finally hear abou the RM30 CDWG's. I'm patiently waiting for my CDWG for the RM30C I've been using as a center in my all-VMPS 5.12 system (RM/X's, 626r's, RM30C). The toe-in on standard RM models is pretty drastic (my RM/X's cross 2 feet in front of me). Interesting to hear that toe-in doesn't change much with CDWG.

Brian, is it true that you are considering backing off selling CDWG's to us exisiting owners?? John?

As per our funny little thread a few months ago, the speakers aren't really 5 feet from the REAR wall, are they? You mean front wall, right?

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 May 2006, 02:51 am »

We made quite a few CDWG's in our own factory with a table saw and hand routers. For two weeks of effort we got a bunch of warped waveguides and a thick film of sawdust on everything. We're not doing that again.

I am working to get CDWG's made for all models and they will be available asap.

OTL · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 May 2006, 03:17 am »

Quote from: ted_b

As per our funny little thread a few months ago, the speakers aren't really 5 feet from the REAR wall, are they? You mean front wall, right?

Ya, ya, ya....front wall. It's to my rear when I'm in my office. I have a horrible sense of direction. Thank God for GPS navigation.

OTL · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 May 2006, 03:28 am »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

We made quite a few CDWG's in our own factory with a table saw and hand routers. For two weeks of effort we got a bunch of warped waveguides and a thick film of sawdust on everything. We're not doing that again....<snip>.

Yah, and some of your sawdust has been expatriated to Connecticut, hitching a free ride on my PR cones and the nifty white cotton speaker socks.

Outsourcing keeps the economy alive, and your shop neat. It's a win/win.

John Casler · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 May 2006, 03:45 am »

Quote from: OTL

Early, first impressions:

Please keep in mind my gear has been powered off for about 3 months and just now beginning to settle down and smooth out after 4 hours of "exercising" the new surrounds. The Digital stuff takes 45 mins to begin to settle in and is OK after 2 hours, but really needs a full day to chase the gremlins away. The amps are MOSFET and require a day or two to be at their best. So.....

- Damn good thing these things so well finished and hansome. They're not particularly small

All told, I'm very pleased, enjoying the hell out of my new speakers. Things just keep sounding better and better with time.....and the significant other is all smiles again! And, as we all know that's a very good thing, with serious implications.

Thanks B! John and Scott too.

Listen, share and enjoy.
...

Hi Mike,

You ain't seen (hoid) nuthin yet.

Really, you are now on a path, and in 9 months you'll just be looking back and saying WOW!

what a trip!!

In a few short moments you have already uncovered the beginning potential. After you two get aquainted, and you learn some of her "buttons", she will be just like the best girlfreind you ever had (let's hope that is your current one

) and she will light up when turn on her amp, and you sit in the sweet spot. And eventually she will tell you what makes her sound her best, but you may have to coax her a little.

Don't rush it.

Let her relax and get loose, then you can twist her and place her, and teach her to do what she was meant to do and that is make incredible music, and sonic images.

She likes to have her L-pads gently adjusted, click by click, and she even like a "pinch" now and then (as long as it is from the putty from he "passive" radiator. Take it from the front one, that is her favorite

But anyhow, before I get carried away, (by the men in white coats) if there is anything B, Scott, or I can do, let us know.

warnerwh · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 May 2006, 05:22 am »

OTL: Welcome! Yes these speakers reproduce sound of the piano better than anything I've heard. Take John's advice to the letter as it's exactly correct.

Speaker position and listener position should be of the first things you do. In the meantime enjoy your RM 30's. You're just beginning to find out how good these can sound.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have on anything regarding your system.

john1970 · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 May 2006, 10:16 am »

Brian,

Can't wait to get a production pair of CDWG's for my RM40s.

Thank you for the update,

John

ted_b · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 May 2006, 01:45 pm »

JC,
I got excited just reading your post.

OTL,
The RM line of VMPS speakers are the most tunable speakers I've ever encountered. That is not a bad thing; just a fact that you need to take seriously. When Big B or John say things like "move by one inch increments", or "turn the l-pads a click at a time" or "peel off only a fingernail full of putty" they mean it. It's like the focus ring on your camera; very small increments mean a lot. Additionally, what I did with my RM/X's is to invest in a $10 laser ruler (thanks to Julian for the tip ) that makes toe-in symmetry a breeze.

OTL · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 May 2006, 12:59 am »

Ok, we're well warmed up now, and things are streching out nicely...

Just put on the Classic Records Led Zepplin 2. There are no word to descrive this, except "I should have quit you long time ago".....

Excuse me, I need to disrobe.

Listen, share and enjoy.

Mike B.

Se7en · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 May 2006, 04:28 pm »

Any more updates?

I'd love to hear your break-in reports...

-7

OTL · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 May 2006, 07:55 pm »

Been busy trying to ties things up before the weekend. Here's my best shot at the current state of affairs.....

Other that what's already been reported, I've been moving these puppies around, trying to find the right spot for the tradeoff between bass/presence and minimizing room anomolies.

I've identified a fairly large mode, which of course presents itself right at the fuggin' listening position. It's bass minus and empty. 12 inches of the head either way and the sound goes from AM to FM. Moved the speakers back, changed the seat position, toe'd 'em in a bit more, spread 'em out......still mucking around with the "right" place.

The CDWG's do splash the sound around and I'll likely be looking at least at 1st reflection treatment. My past Apogees were so directional, 1st reflections didn't come into play much. Ya win some, ya lose some.....believe me the overall sound on my first floor in the kitchen, the dining room and the back porch is to die for from a stereo pair of speakers sitting in the living room. Many positive comments from the SO and friends. The SO used to sing in a choral group. She "gets" it. I'm sooo lucky in this regard. SHE hands me Miles, Keb Mo, Michelle Shocked, Sarah Vaughn and Freddie Hubard from the vinyl rack. It just can't get any better than this.

These's guys are quite sensitive to placement, not only for the "image" which can be a couple of feet outside the speakers for the right recording/placment, but also for bass reinforcement. An inch or two matters very much, to a much larger degree than any other speakers I've owned. So far very wide and toe'd in seems to work best, but after all it's only been a few days. Haven't even touched the pots or putty yet. (They seem quite close as delivered. We'll see.)

I't so weird that a placment FU can be heard just about anywhere in the house. Very weird, but I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em. E.g:, I just moved the right speaker about 1.5" forward. I'm not sitting in the sweetspot as I type this, but there's a very noticable improvement in the bass tonality and the overall balance of sound in the house. 1.5"? I know this sounds a bit ludicrious, especially WAY off axis (like 90 degrees), but SOMETHING just locked right it. I FU'd, and had the speakers at different distances from the front wall

When I just moved the right channel 1.5" forward the difference is NIGHT AND DAY from where I'm sitting. Toe tappin' good now, again. Still goin' to school on these puppies. It'll be awhile before I can say "that's it".

Overall, in a sentence.....immediate, wide dymamic range and tuneful, (aka following a bass line or quick bluegrass finger pickin', etc)......you are there. They do like to be tickled however, and so far are sucking up everything my Muse 175's can give 'em. They are very kind to small group jazz like early Julie London, Holly Cole, and some RLJ. However the Classic Records Zep the other night was almost over the top.

Back to school for now., and speaking of Freddie Hubbard, Red Clay just started. We're done!

Listen, share and enjoy.

Mike B.

John Casler · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 May 2006, 08:21 pm »

Are the woofers firing "in" or "out"?

OTL · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 May 2006, 09:10 pm »

Woofers firing in.

The left is somewhat in a corner, hence the firing "in" choice first. The right is almost in almost free space. I have a fairly big space with many options. Isn't that awesome?

I have a very goofy, open floor plan. I'll figure it out, but these guys react in major ways to minor changes. At least that's my limited experinece over the the last 2-3 days. Got about 5 hours or so of active listening and 15 or so passive. Check with me on Tuesday.

As I said, I'm still moving 'em around. (BTW, the piano black is slippery and slides across the carpet with little effort. A big plus with these monoliths)

Listen, share and enjoy.

Mike B.

OTL · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 May 2006, 09:41 pm »

And oh, I should have mentioned that I can now, much more than before, hear the difference between "day power" and "night power". And it's NOT subtle!

Daytime is glassy and busy/confused. Late night/early moring is much more relaxed, laid back and deep.

Who woulda thunk? I was somewhat aware of this with my previous setup. Now it's unmistakable.

Listen, share and enjoy.

Mike B.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 May 2006, 09:59 pm »

Reduction in ambient noise levels contributes to the sense of "ease" for nitetime listening.

Yes, small placement changes make a big difference, particularly in a relatively live room. Try woofers firing out for a much bigger soundstage.

Se7en · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 May 2006, 10:13 pm »

Thanks for the update! Great write up so far. Hopefully you'll get some seat time with them this weekend

OTL · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 May 2006, 10:37 pm »

B, it''s not ambient noise, I'm talking about here. It's AC line hash and/or RF crap.

All I'm saying is that my existing setup sounds much better after hours.

Mike B.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 May 2006, 05:06 am »

In my job working for the US Army in Germany I monitored the AC line 24/7. It indeed looks a lot better after hours. In the AM there is a lot of noise and distortion riding along.