[Jampot]

brj had it right - 'micro jam'!

Serves me right for not being familiar with dates of U.S. festivals. Sunday being Mothers Day I guess anyone with youngsters at home had other priorities (Mother's Day here in UK was in March).

Thank goodness Marvda1 and brj managed over - we had a good six hours of mix n match without being under any pressure to work in too many combinations.

Marvin and Brian had both heard my RWA iMod previously but at that time the mod and the interconect were a little raw. Both are nicely burned in now so when they arrived we had the iMod connected to the RWA Clari-T with a 4" cable terminated both ends with a decent quality mini jack. Vinnie fitted a mini jack socket on the rear of the Clari-T for me recently so it now has switchable phono and mini jack inputs - ideal for my office system. Speaker cables were 2m lengths of cat 5 with bananas at the amp and bare wire at the Omega super 3s (on 20"Skylan stands).

The house at Keller is extreme 'open plan' with a tendancy to echo but we found a location where the super 3s were effectively in open space - no rear wall - but providing a comfortable listening area and some 4 to 5 feet from side walls. Marvin has Usher 6381s and Brian just took delivery of his Salk HT3s so the sound we were achieving from this little system caused some amusement!

First up we changed the cat 5 speaker cables for Brian's Straley's - brutish things to clamp to the back of the Clari-T - but they didn't sound any worse (not especially better either imho) than the cat 5 so we left them in for a while.

I have read so much about valves with tripaths that I was really looking forward to hearing Marvin's Dodd pre amp. As I write this I realise that I really didn't 'conciously' evaluate it - it was just there, doing what it does, and doing it very well. From a purely practical point it has 2 sets of phono inputs so we were able to connect analogue out from the stock SB3 and digital via my old dac and pretty much a/b them, a slight difference in gain made this less than entirely analytical but it was close enough for us to conclude that the digital out via the dac had the edge, but that it wasn't in the same league as the iMod.

The Clari-t has relatively few hours on as yet - certainly not enough for the Blackgates to be at their best so we swapped the 'improved' item for the stock Clari-t (no volume control) If there was a difference we couldn't hear it. I am sure that won't be the case when the caps have had enough hours.

That done, we put the stock SB3 aside and fed the (unique?) RWA 'digital out only' SB3 to the dac. Vinnie offered this for sale a few weeks ago as a one off and I was fortunate to be first in line. The analogue stages have been completely removed and the digital stage tweaked. Now things were getting interesting. There was a difference between the iMod and digital SB3 but we were divdided about which was preferred. Because of the mini jack on the ipod we couldn't use identical interconnects (which we had when comparing digital and analogue of the stock SB3). But of course there is a whole world of dacs to explore another time and without doubt the digital SB3 was being held back in that area.

Brian had brought over his (hernia risk alert!) BPT power conditioner. Power conditioning is something I have only read about - batteries rule in my office system - so we swapped the Clari-T for the stock Teac AL700P and plugged it in the wall first to get a measure for the power conditioning. Boy, night and day doesn't begin to describe it!. To be fair, we didn't just plug the Teac in there. once we hooked up the BPT we fed the dac power supply and Dodd from it as well. We noticed a not very subtle change in the lower octaves between the Teac and the Clari-T whether because of the extra muscle or the ac power I can't say, but the Teac certainly had the edge in that area. I know this has been remarked upon before and will search for the old threads when I have time.

Mindfull of the battery capacity of the Clari-T we took the opportunity to play arround with a bunch of interconnects while the Teac was in play - no startling revelations or must have recomendations came out of this but it was useful (and comforting) to be able to hear clear differences. Marvin had brought 3 sets (perhaps he will chip in with details) and I had some Cambridge Silver Spirit bought about 8 years ago which I often found a little strident. Perhaps it was the influence of the Dodd, but I think we all agreed that these were the best of the bunch - certainly not screachy the way I remembered and they have stayed in the system in Keller.

Brian very graciously agreed to humour me by wrestling the BPT to Andy's second floor den with a Teac DLR700 / AL700P home theatre system so we could 'see' the difference power conditioning had there - Andy became a believer.

Meanwhile I restored order in the original system to leave it the way Andy will use it for the forseeable future - stock SB3 (with linear ps), Cambridge Silver interconnects,stock Clari-T, single strand cat 5 cables, and the super 3s.

Sounded great!

Thanks guys for coming over. Will look forward to visiting Brian to admire the Salks next time I'm over (wife and daughter said something about Thanksgiving, another holiday when everyone has other things to do.....)

Jim

For the record-

The dac is a QED digit with external Positron ps I bought on ebay for £50. It is at least 20 years old. (Recomendations for improvement gratefully recieved)

The Clari-t has Auricap input coupling caps, Black Gate power supply caps, 10K Alps volume pot,  power and input selector mini-toggle switches moved to the front panel and the mini jack input fitted where the power switch used to be on the back. Also has volume controlled pre / sub out

Modded SB3 has had the entire analog output section completely removed (including the RCA jacks and headphone jack. Other mods include increased power supply input capacitance, Removal of the 12.28MHz crystal oscillator to reduce internal noise and jitter.

We listened to music by Jack Johnson, Katie Melua, Keb Mo, Beethoven (6th symphony - all of it!), and some old UK rockers - Chris Rea, Fairground Attraction and others.

[marvda1]

many thanks to jim and andy for having us over, the burgers were great and i would never let andy drink alone... bad beer karma.

i'll start with the interconnects. the way we ranked them in preference were:
1. qed silver
2. aural thrills black axiom
3. zebra cables
4. tri-braided silver plated copper(purchased on ebay a few years ago)

the biggest difference in the top two cables were that the qed's had bit more forward presentation with the vocals which seemed to bring out the best in the full range driver of the omega.
  the zebra was best connected between the amp and preamp which was what i found to be the case at home and is where i am using the cable.
the tri-braid was a bit hot in the upper regions which a lot of silver plated copper is apt to be.

the omega is the second full range  based speaker i have heard.  i don't recall the name of the other speaker but it was a diy horn loaded enclosure and you could really tell the steep rolloff on the two extremes.
the omegas were very smooth in their presentation, the type of speaker you would sit back and meditate to. although i am sure this would not be my main speaker as i like to take off on wild dynamic swings sometimes, but as an office or bedroom system they would be great.
as jim stated the extra 24 watts of the higher powerd amp did make a difference over the clari-t.
there was also a noticable difference with the power supply added  i might have to check into the dodd balanced power supply.
i would have liked to have heard the omegas with a high powered amp( i brought a 120 watt integrated but we did not have time to hook it up.

all in all it was a nice afternoon of good people, good conversation, good music, and good food( "drink").

again thanks to andy and jim.


marvin

[brj]

Jim, thanks again to you and Andy for hosting the micro-jam.  As I said in the other thread, it was actually rather relaxing to gradually swap things in and out over a 6 hour period, often just sitting back to enjoy the music.

I have to admit that the Straley cables didn't offer much improvement at all over the simple Cat5 wire initially in place.  I have compared Gregg's cables against several other offerings in two very different systems now, and have heard very distinct improvements both times.  As a result, I'm curious as to the non-showing in Andy's system.  I had two thoughts on the issue... First, I wonder if the speaker binding post connection was a problem.  Those posts were wider than the spades, and we had to run one end of the spade into the hole in the post.  I'm sure that this was a less than ideal connection.  Second, I wonder if the low-power nature of the system was a factor.  A 93 dB speaker powered by a 6W amp may not need as much cable as less efficient systems.  (If this is true, it is a very valuable piece of information.)

I agree that the 0.5m Cambridge Silver Spirit ICs were the best of the bunch.  I wonder, however, if they would have stayed the favorite without the tubed pre-amp or the power conditioner in the mix.

Both battery powered Clari-T amps were very impressive.  The combination of the Clari-T and Fostex driver was wonderfully clean and detailed.  While the unmodded Teac was perhaps not quite as clean, the extra power it delivered (30W vs. 6W) was immediately apparent as added "weight", especially toward the lower end of the frequency range.  I'd really like to hear the modded version of the Teac, especially if it could be compared to Vinnie's new Signature 30.

The power conditioner we tested was my BPT 3.5 Signature.  I bought it used from the original owner, who ordered it with several upgrades.  The 2 "source" outlets were upgraded from Hubbles to Wattgates, each of which has a Bybee installed.  The 3 remaining outlets were upgraded to FIMs.  The internal wiring was upgraded to solid 10ga cryo treated silver.  It also has the extra damping and ERS applications of the Signature Plus version.  I believe that the original owner also had the Z-sleeve removed on the principle that it restricted system dynamics.

As for the impact on Andy's system, I have to agree that running all non-battery components through the BPT was beneficial.  The bass was tighter, the highs were smoother, and attacks were cleaner.  In terms of sonic improvement, I won't kid myself... I'm sure that room treatments and certain component upgrades would offer more bang for the buck.  That said, the improvements weren't hard to identify, and since I purchased it for a fraction of the new price, with the additional goal of protecting my system from surges, I think it was a worthwhile investment.  As attractive as it might be, I just can't imagine a time when every single audio or video component I own will be either battery powered or have their own built in power conditioner.

Thanks again guys - it was a fun time!

[marvda1]

JIM...GET ANDY SIGNED ON AUDIO CIRCLES!!

[Jampot]

Marve / Brian, thanks for chipping in... I'm new to this!

No question about the silver ics benefitting from the tube pre - They have been in my cupboard for over 5 years 'cos I didn't like them.

I don't pretend to understand the technical stuff with regard to the speaker cables. I revisited the topic on the Omega circle (sorry, don't have the link to hand) but it seems it is something to do with inductance (not capacitance like I said on Sunday) and the thin wire suits the tripath. I tried them with an old fashioned ss amp I have here and it not only got very hot - it sounded terrible! Perhaps if a technical guru is browsing they will comment.

Had plenty of time to chew on the difference between the amps during the flight home. I bought the Teac when the $99 close out deals were going with the hope of having it modded. Lets face it, the connections and improved internal wiring must be a major leap forward whether or not it's powered by battery or mains. The 'paper in oil capacitor' matter (ala RWA Signature 30) could be interesting too. Must ask Vinnie for his veiw (and pricing). The other possibility that appeals is that Vinnie offers to install the Monica nos dac inside - which maintains the simple 2 box solution if used with the squeezebox.

Have sent Andy a link to make sure he reads this - so he will pick up your message Marvin.

Jim

[seacow]

Hey Marv - its Andy here, finally got round to signing up so i can keep in touch!

Really enjoyed the Keller Mini Jam and look forward to doing it again in the not too distant future!  

[marvda1]

andy, glad you could join in. we should be having a couple of get togethers shortly at art's or brian's.
the usher amp is settling in quite nicely and is oh so mellow. wish i could nudge ken into bring that vac by the house(hint,hint).

marvin

[kyyuan]

andy, glad you could join in. we should be having a couple of get togethers shortly at art's or brian's.
the usher amp is settling in quite nicely and is oh so mellow. wish i could nudge ken into bring that vac by the house(hint,hint).

marvin

Marvin,

Were you saying something?

Ken