[95bcwh]

Today I finally got to listen to a pair of Vandy 5A, the setup was:
Ayre CX-7e CD Player
Sutherland 800 preamp
Bel 1001 amp
Vandy 5A

To my surprise, I don't hear anything "special" about the setup, they sounded just as "good/bad" as my $1000 cheap Orb Audio 5.1 system, lack of clarity & transparency, muddy bass. I played Chris Botti's "My one and only love", the trumpet and the vocal both has some degree of harshness in them. I then played Enigma's "I love you I'll kill you", the bass is very muddy, worse than many of the speakers (even the cheap one) that I've listen to.

I left just after playing two songs, as one member of the forum once said:"If it's not in the first 3 nodes, it's simply not there". There's no way I'll pay $15k for this speakers - despite it being a class-A speakers by Stereophiles.

A week ago I went to audition a pair of Orion and Rocet 850,  I was quite disappointed with the Orion. After reading so many good reviews on the Orion, I expect to hear something really special, but what I heard was something worse than a pair of Rocket 850. The Rocket 850 has more refined bass, more transparency, and better mid range than the Orion.

And after I heard the Vandy 5A today, I thought the Orion was better than Vandy. When playing classical music, at least the Orion performed superbly, I felt there was a lot of air around me, and there's a large sweet spot area around the room.

So my experience in the past week has been logic-defying, the cheaper the speaker, the better it sounded to me.

Something must be wrong with my ear, I think next time I need to bring an experience audiophile with me so he can help me to hear what I'm not able to hear in these expensive speakers.

[mcrespo71]

Today I finally got to listen to a pair of Vandy 5A, the setup was:
Ayre CX-7e CD Player
Sutherland 800 preamp
Bel 1001 amp
Vandy 5A

To my surprise, I don't hear anything "special" about the setup, they sounded just as "good/bad" as my $1000 cheap Orb Audio 5.1 system, lack of clarity & transparency, muddy bass. I played Chris Botti's "My one and only love", the trumpet and the vocal both has some degree of harshness in them. I then played Enigma's "I love you I'll kill you", the bass is very muddy,  ...

Nothings wrong with your ears.  In fact, yours are the ears everyone should hope for (i.e., make expensive audio equipment sound not so good)!

[Double Ugly]

There's nothing wrong with your ears.  You heard what you heard, and that's the way you should make all you audio decisions...via personal experience with the equipment.

What you heard today may have been the fault of the speakers, or it might have been:

-  a synergy problem with the equipment, or
-  a characteristic of one or more of the electronics you didn't find to your liking, or
-  the room may have affected more than you know, particularly with the bass, or
-  etc.,
-  etc.,[/list:u]Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of thinking that if everyone else thinks A, B, or C is great, that there's something wrong with you if you don't agree.  Few things in the world are more subjective than audio, but as long as you remain true to *your* ears, you'll do just fine.

[_scotty_]

An important thing to remember about speakers is that they are the first part of a  multi-part system,the second part is the room. Bad room equals bad sound.
Another thing to remember is that a speaker can only reproduce the signal that goes into it.  I would try to hear these or any other loudspeakers I was curious about in more than one room and with different brands of electronics if possible. If your comparison involved all of the same electronics and only the speakers were changed then you might have greater confidence that your conclusions are valid.
As it stands too many variables are unaccounted for.
Vandy's might still be crap but you don't know for sure without further auditioning.
Scotty

[95bcwh]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that all three rooms that houses the speakers were not properly treated, non of them have bass-trap in it. The owner of the Orion speakers told me that because Orion is a dipole speakers which reflect sound off the wall, there's no need for room treatment. The Vandy 5A store has some polyester foams around 1st reflection point and that's about it. The house of the 850 has no treatment whatsoever.

man...how I wish I was in New York area, so I can join some of the audio raves to learn more about this hobby.

[zybar]

Today I finally got to listen to a pair of Vandy 5A, the setup was:
Ayre CX-7e CD Player
Sutherland 800 preamp
Bel 1001 amp
Vandy 5A

To my surprise, I don't hear anything "special" about the setup, they sounded just as "good/bad" as my $1000 cheap Orb Audio 5.1 system, lack of clarity & transparency, muddy bass. I played Chris Botti's "My one and only love", the trumpet and the vocal both has some degree of harshness in them. I then played Enigma's "I love you I'll kill you", the bass is very muddy,  ...

Was this a dealer or home setup?

If the 5A's sounded like you described, they are seriously setup wrong!!

While I agree with everybody saying trust your ears, I will say that in NO WAY will a way a properly setup 5A sound the way you are describing.

That can be problem with auditions...if you don't know the system, you really can have a very misleading experience.

George

[95bcwh]

Zybar,
 It's a dealer setup.. unfortunately it's the only dealer in Houston that sells the Vandy.. so can't cross-check with another one..

[zybar]

Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of thinking that if everyone else thinks A, B, or C is great, that there's something wrong with you if you don't agree. Few things in the world are more subjective than audio, but as long as you remain true to *your* ears, you'll do just fine.

While I agree that this hobby is very subjective and everybody hears things differently, there are some things that hold true.

A good piece of gear setup properly, will sound like a good piece of gear.  It might not be exactly what you like or want, but it won't sound muddy and lack transparency, etc...

George

[zybar]

Zybar,
 It's a dealer setup.. unfortunately it's the only dealer in Houston that sells the Vandy.. so can't cross-check with another one..

That dealer should be flogged in public for making anybody think the Vandy 5A is equivalent to an Orb 5.1 system!!

BTW, lack of room treatments alone wouldn't make things as bad as you heard.

George

[95bcwh]

Yeah...I also think that the dealer is not doing a good job, it's impossible for a $15k speakers to sound so bad if it's set up properly....

I will try to get someone with more experience to go with me to the Vandy store again..

[zybar]

Yeah...I also think that the dealer is not doing a good job, it's impossible for a $15k speakers to sound so bad if it's set up properly....

I will try to get someone with more experience to go with me to the Vandy store again..

FWIW, I have gone into dealers and listened to gear I owned and knew inside and out, and left wondering what the fuc@?  How did they manage to make somethig that sounds so good at my place, sound like such sh%t at their shop.

Just makes you wonder about the dealer and clients who buy from that dealer...

George

[Double Ugly]

A good piece of gear setup properly, will sound like a good piece of gear. It might not be exactly what you like or want, but it won't sound muddy and lack transparency, etc...

I agree to a point, but I think it's safe to say we all have our own definitions and baselines.  

I've heard plenty of equipment (amps, preamps, speakers) that produced bass I'd describe as muddy, and yet some folks I know thought everything was set up to perfection.  I also submit there's more than one definition of transparency among audiophiles/music lovers, but none of this was the intent of my post.

What I tried (and perhaps failed) to say was that he needs to trust his own ears, even if that means going against so-called conventional wisdom.  It was not to convince him to formulate definitive conclusions about a piece of gear or pair of speakers heard once in a dealer showroom.

Even the universally acclaimed 5As can be made to sound bad...it just takes more effort (or less...I always get that confused ).

[_scotty_]

Yeah...I also think that the dealer is not doing a good job, it's impossible for a $15k speakers to sound so bad if it's set up properly.... slap.gif

I will go so far as to disagree with you on this point. My wife and  I heard a pair of Wilson  X-1/GrandSLAMM's that sounded worse than bad and went straight to terrible.  They were powered by an entire rack of the best Krell had to offer at the time and cabled with top of the line MIT wire.  We were about 12ft. back and you could point to the where the tweeter,midranges and woofers were with your eyes closed and the sound would sterilize frogs at 500 yards. This was at a large dealer with a decent room. We lasted 15 seconds before we requested that the torture be stopped.  It was a miserable performance from $125,000 worth gear and so irritating that I did not care where the problem originated from at the time and I had no desire to try to find out what was wrong.  I think poor performance from systems set up in dealer's showrooms is probably an all too common occurance rather than rare event.
Scotty

[95bcwh]

Just makes you wonder about the dealer and clients who buy from that dealer...

George

Yeap.. amazing isnt' it.. apparently the store did quite well in business. They only sell very expensive stuff. The cheapest HT receiver they sell are ARCAM for example, they also have Maggies speakers which I have listened to also and was not impressed either.

I think in this world, there're enough people who makes many millions a year and can afford to buy things without know what they're buying.

[Tweaker]

Seems like making a truly good sounding speaker sound that bad would be a difficult thing to do. Maybe there was a component malfunction somewhere along the line or they were hooked up out of phase. No Vandy should sound that bad, not even their least expensive models.
 Not impressed with Maggies?! Wow. Maybe it is the way you hear.

[95bcwh]

The maggie that I heard was the 1.6, nothing spectacular really. I haven't heard many speakers, but from what I've heard that impressed me more than the Vandy/Orion:

Focal JM-Lab Nova Utopia
Focal JM-Lab Electra 1027 Be
Focal JM-lab Micro Utopia
Paradigm Signature S8
Rocket 850
VMPS RM30
Legacy Focus
Aerial Acoustics Model 9
Aerial Acoustics Model 7

At least, what I heard previously kind of follow the cost==quality trend. The Vandy/Orion are defying logic, for now.

[Tweaker]

I'm had not meant to imply that you have tin ears when I say it might be the way you hear, in case you were thinking that. I think I agree with Double Ugly. Ultimately I think it's how we filter what we hear. How our brains process the sounds entering our ears and what, as a result, sounds good or bad is a result of that processing. Part of the processing I feel is conscious and learned and the other part is possibly mechanical. Say like two different microphones that will "hear" the same thing but produce a different sound. If a Maggie or Vandy is not your cup of tea I can understand that. There are a lot of highly regarded speakers I have heard that made me yawn. One of them was the Focal JM-Lab Electra 1027 Be! I have also heard the big expensive Wilsons and thought they were just ok. Considering the price I had expectations of them sounding like God!

[JLM]

Must be a combination of things.  

My gold standard is live, unamplified music (all processing removed).  You're still left with environmental (room) differences, but it's as close as get to not hearing through someone's equipment.

Don't underestimate how much conditioning most of us have gone through.  After spending 25+ years listening to 1st order crossovers or no crossovers at all, I can't tolerate the inconherent sound of most multi-way speakers.  Some wonder how I can listen to my Fostex F200A speakers without a super tweeter and I wonder how they can live without the bottom 1 or 1 1/2 octaves of bass.

I've not been through nearly as many shops or equipment as many of you, but I've not seen one well set up room in a shop.  Some are just stupid bad.  One of those had Vandys and Maggies ($30k of speakers facing down the length of a 12 foot wide hall lined on both sides with equipment) so neither impressed me.  I know it's expensive to retail audio, but the distributors really need to set some standards, else their stuff can get a very bad rep.

[Val]

Zybar,
 It's a dealer setup.. unfortunately it's the only dealer in Houston that sells the Vandy.. so can't cross-check with another one..

This dealer must be the same one where I listened to the original Vandy 5s years ago (dedicated room, same BEL amp). My impressions were similar to yours. This only tells me that many dealers/owners don't set up their systems well, because at about the same time I listened to Vandy 5s at a Florida dealer and they were wonderful.

[nature boy]

The Vandy 5A's are really wonderful sounding speakers when properly set up.  I have to agree with Georges (Zybar) comments above.  

I have listened extensively to Vandy 5A's with Quicksilver V4 amps at Audio Connection in Verona, NJ.  Some of the best music my ears have every heard.  If you are ever on the East Coast, I encourage you to stop by and meet the owner John Rutan.  The store is only 30 minutes east of NYC.

The speakers are tricky to set up, but all Vandy's require placement off rear and side walls to sound their best.

Regards,

NB