The Altman Attraction DAC

earlmarc · « **on:** 29 Apr 2006, 11:02 pm »

The Altman Attraction DAC reviewed in May issue of enjoythemusic.com
Here is link to website: www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm

earlmarc · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Apr 2006, 11:24 pm »

Oh, the Attraction DAC sells for $948.00 dollars and according to Dick Olsher offers the best CD reproduction he's heard in 25 years, cost no object, and totally obliterates all competition in the under $3000 price range.

ghersh · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Apr 2006, 12:31 am »

Quote from: earlmarc

The Altman Attraction DAC reviewed in May issue of enjoythemusic.com
Here is link to website: www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm

Thanks, very nice article. Everyone who's listening CDs should read it.

earlmarc · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Apr 2006, 02:56 pm »

I received an e-mail from Charles Altman about the importance of a good CD transport with his BOYB (Bring Your On Battery) Attraction DAC. He stated that a good transport makes about a 7% difference, however, if you use his JISCO ( Jitter Scrambling Decorrelator), the difference is 0%. I also checked the price of the Optima 34 Red Top Battery and found it for $106.00 at this link: www.diversifiedbattery.com/optima_34_red_top_battery.html

So the total price with battery and DAC is $1054.00. Not bad if its as good as is being reported.

KT · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 May 2006, 03:13 am »

Very interesting stuff, indeed.

A DAC that costs over $1000 is a splurge for me, but it sounds very promising and maybe worth it to a lot of folks if it sounds a good as it's made out to.

I love Altman's discussion about guitar lacquer (I saw the picture of the Warmoth flametop guitar body he's working on and got all excited - I have a nice Warmoth swampash Strat body that I need to put together which just rings when tapped), and his wood turntable and arm are really in the spirit of a true DIYer. I may try to make that one.

Cool stuff.

I respect Dick Olsher's opinion a lot, but I like the TubeDac+ (especially with mods) a lot more that he did. But then again, he's used to the really top stuff.

I would have like to see the DIY Paradise Charlize, Scott Nixon's non-tubed Chibi Dac, or Peter Daniel's Dac in the review. Those are all really affordable dacs that really sound great (actually, I don't have the Peter Daniel one, just the other two).

I'll have to keep an eye out for those Charles Altman projects. I find them very interesting.

Best,
KT

Gordy · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 May 2006, 04:08 am »

Quote from: earlmarc

I also checked the price of the Optima 34 Red Top Battery and found it for $106.00 at this link: www.diversifiedbattery.com/optima_34_red_top_battery.html

Those Red Top's are huge! I'd wager a $15.00 7ah SLA would be sufficient to give you at least 8 hr. runs between charges. My P3a dac, moded by RWA, is good for about 10 hrs and uses a battery less than 7ah... Of course, if you need 100+ run time... go for it

Loftprojection · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 May 2006, 02:15 pm »

Well, sound wise it is very interesting. I assume there maybe quite a bit of exageration but hey, maybe not.

What I don't like though is the lack of casing and having to use a car battery. I don't know how this guy thinks he's going to sell many of these DACs. I mean, there are not many people who are going to install a car battery in their livingroom! Let's say "wife acceptance" is sure going to be VERY low! Too bad because if it was in a real casing, even a very cheap and bad looking one and if he was using a "friendlier" power solution it might be a very tempting DAC to try out.

BrassEar · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 May 2006, 08:15 pm »

Quote from: earlmarc

I received an e-mail from Charles Altman about the importance of a good CD transport with his BOYB (Bring Your On Battery) Attraction DAC. He stated that a good transport makes about a 7% difference, however, if you use his JISCO ( Jitter Scrambling Decorrelator), the difference is 0%.

Totally disagree. A CD transport makes exactly an 8.5% difference.

Interesting DAC but a bit overpriced when you consider the Nixon, Monica, DAC-AH, Ack! etc.

Loftprojection · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 May 2006, 02:48 am »

Quote from: BrassEar

Interesting DAC but a bit overpriced when you consider the Nixon, Monica, DAC-AH, Ack! etc.

Well it depends, the magazine reviewer does say it sounds better than anything he ever heard, price no object!

KT · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 May 2006, 02:04 pm »

Quote from: Loftprojection

What I don't like though is the lack of casing and having to use a car battery. I don't know how this guy thinks he's going to sell many of these DACs. I mean, there are not many people who are going to install a car battery in their livingroom!

You have to be a real enthusiast to put this in your livingroom - wife or spouse be damned!

Just kidding. I get the feeling that he's more interested in participating in the hobby than moving a lot of dacs. That's admirable to me. I'm sure that if there's a great demand for the dac from non-audiotweak folks, a more homestead-friendly version would be produced.

I imagine you'd be able to use a PS that's smaller than a car battery. Maybe this dac would work well with a regular SLA or one of Nuuk's switch mode power supplies. It draws 200mA of current, so I don't see why something like a 9 or 12 Ah 12V SLA wouldn't be fine.

Best,
KT

Loftprojection · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 May 2006, 02:53 pm »

Quote from: KT

You have to be a real enthusiast to put this in your livingroom - wife or spouse be damned!

Just kidding. I get the feeling that he's more interested in participating in the hobby than moving a lot of dacs. That's admirable to me. I'm sure that if there's a great demand for the dac from non-audiotweak folks, a more homestead-friendly version would be produced.

I imagine you'd be able to use a PS that's smaller than a car battery. Maybe this dac would work well with a regular SLA or one of Nuuk's switc ...

Well I guess the "plywood" base with sticking out switches and caps could be positionned somewhat hidden from the wife's view! But, heck, a big red top car battery! For that one I'd have to buy a little safe/chest, lock the battery inside and tell her there is a jewel in there for her that will be opened only if she lets me listen to music several times per week! hahaha

Anyway, I'm not totally decided on a/which DAC yet so I'll wait a bit more, maybe we'll get some more reviews of this "Attraction". I'd really prefer a USB version and so for now my first choice would be the Wavelength Brick.

ghersh · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 May 2006, 08:35 pm »

Quote from: earlmarc

The Altman Attraction DAC reviewed in May issue of enjoythemusic.com
Here is link to website: www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm

I'm very much interested in this DAC but a bit concerned with the whole idea of having the battery. I went to the Altman site, read a bit about battery, noticed he was saying in his notes on amplifier, also fed with the battery, that as battery charge decreases (even before you need to recharge it), the sound of amplifier changes.

I would rather have something I can plug into a wall socket, get a clean DC and forget the whole story. Is there such animal? Kind of a high-quality AC/DC converter that provide the DC as good as the battery does?

Thanks.

Hantra · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 May 2006, 11:55 pm »

Quote from: KT

I respect Dick Olsher's opinion a lot, but I like the TubeDac+ (especially with mods) a lot more that he did. But then again, he's used to the really top stuff.
..

Don't be fooled by this one reviewer's opinions. Your ears are better than his, if for no other reason than they are your own. I am used to the "really top stuff" as well, and of the fleet of DAC's I've had in my home from $500 - $15,000, I have yet to find a suitable replacement to my Nixon DAC that isn't $7k+. And I heard that one BEFORE I got my new USB version, which owns the TubeDAC+ in my system!

I find it interesting that Dick says:

"At the highest levels of high-end audio such differences become elusive, and in some cases may well be a function of system and room interactions."

I read the opposite in Stereophile last month. And I myself have found the opposite to be true.

I wonder why Dick doesn't mention his review system at all? Other than that ghetto transport he uses, I don't notice any associated gear. It would really help explain why he came to his conclusions.

Loftprojection · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 May 2006, 02:32 am »

Quote from: Hantra

And I heard that one BEFORE I got my new USB version, which owns the TubeDAC+ in my system!

Hey Hantra, what do you find different between the TubeDAC+ and the new USB version? Scott has a "strange" way of "promoting" it, he says it's essentially the same DAC with a USB input, doesn't seem like there is any difference in the sound.

Hantra · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 May 2006, 02:36 am »

Quote from: Loftprojection

Hey Hantra, what do you find different between the TubeDAC+ and the new USB version? Scott has a "strange" way of "promoting" it, he says it's essentially the same DAC with a USB input, doesn't seem like there is any difference in the sound.

Well. . . It all depends on your system and your tastes. Also, some of the change, according to Scott, are his new proprietary capacitors. I hear the soundstage widen pretty significantly over the old one. There is more detail for sure, and the noise floor is much lower IMO.

Charles · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 May 2006, 11:00 am »

Hi there,

this is Charles.

I happen to be the lucky guy who makes (upon other funny things) the Attraction DAC.

Earlmarc has asked me to contribute something to the issues that have been discussed here.

First, the battery supply: If you only need to power the Attraction DAC, a small motorcycle battery is also okay. You will have less playing hours though. Dick (many other customers and I) use a Optima Red Top model #34 because we also power the BYOB amplifier with the same battery. And then for the fun of the incredible dynamics, we are not willing to use any other battery.

The Attraction DAC runs on 12Volt DC. You can use any DC wall adapter to power the DAC, then you just listen and realize immediately the reason, why the Attraction DAC should run from battery...

Second, hey its just a spruce board. No housing. You have to take care of battery charging. Where's the convenience ?

You are right ! Where's the convenience ? There is none. Have you looked at the price tag ? What I am offering is an incredible sonic experience that otherwise would due a mortgage.

I want many of you to be able to have that experience. I also make a two box convenience DAC (called the Altmann Superlative). This attains the level of sound quality of the Attraction DAC, comes with housing, is wall powered, but at a 10-times higher price.

So with the Attraction DAC, every design feature that is present (whether you recognize it or not) is there for the pure reason of sound quality. There is no compromise and no way for further tweaking. You can of course tweak with it, but not for the better, as there is neither a way nor a reason to make it better.

The Attraction DAC's job is to deliver. Your job is to enjoy. Can you handle that ?

Third: You may have already realized that my whole website http://www.mother-of-tone.com and the offered products act as a filter.

If you are more interested in shiny hifi furniture than in real sound quality, the whole concept will turn you down, you will feel disgusted. Well, that's the way I want it to be. There is simply no appeal for people that are still on the level of showing off with their pricey hifi system and just repeat what others have said and written before, without being able (at this time) to really listen and enjoying.
On the other side, when you are a music lover and really listen and enjoy the experience (like I do), you will feel attracted. And its really fun to attract and interact with all those nice people who vibrate in similar fashion.

So just by the way you feel, you can tell, if you would love to listen to the Attraction DAC or not.

Fourth: Wife acceptance ?!?
If your relationship is such, that it does not allow you to experience the joy of a beautiful musical representation due to cosmetical reasons, then it will probably also resist many other sources of joy.

You can rest assured that when you listen with your partner to the Attraction DAC, she's gonna love it (including the battery).

If she don't, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN !

Love and peace, Charles

earlmarc · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 May 2006, 08:14 pm »

Welcome to audiocircle Charles! I appreciate you taking time from your busy schedule to answer some questions brought up by our members. As you have noticed, we are a critical croud, but most of us are friendly and enjoy the participation of designers. Your DAC is an oddity and strange for many of us. I for one, am intrigued and wonder how it would compare to my APL HiFi SACD player. I quess there is only one way to find out. PM Earlmarc.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 May 2006, 09:04 pm »

I will be ordering one of the Attraction DACs as soon as I am able. I am using a TacT 2.2XP right now, which is an amazing piece of machinery. Used through the onboard DACs, the "upsampling" digital sound is obvious. When run through my non-OS Ack! 2.0, the sound is much better and retains what is so great about non-OS architecture.

Now, internally, the TacT upsamples everything to 192 khz. To run it through the Ack! the signal has to be downsampled before sending the digital signal out. Why the onboard DAC's sound more digital than the Ack! in this scenario is a mystery to me, but I don't really care why.

The Attraction can handle 192 khz conversion directly, without the extra conversion step I'm using now. This seems to be a significant step away from complexity and circuitry, and one that makes sense to me.

Do you offer this DAC with an AES/EBU - XLR cable connection?

BrassEar · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 May 2006, 09:44 pm »

Quote from: Charles

Hi there,
this is Charles.
I happen to be the lucky guy who makes (upon other funny things) the Attraction DAC.
Earlmarc has asked me to contribute something to the issues that have been discussed here.
First, the battery supply: If you only need to power the Attraction DAC, a small motorcycle battery is also okay. You will have less playing hours though. Dick (many other customers and I) use a Optima Red Top model #34 because we also power the BYOB amplifier with the same battery. And then fo ...

Thanks for the info. I for one:

1. Have NO problems using a large battery to power a DAC.
2. Have NO problems buying a dac on a board without a chassis.
3. Have NO problems putting together my own chassis should I so desire.
4. Have NO interest in trying to impress friends and fellow audiophiles with a pretty chassis with lights, etc.

However, I DO have a problem with the price of this DAC. Just look at the competition and you can find several excellent NOS DACs with FABULOUS performance (regardless of how Dick hears it) that cost significantly less than the Attraction DAC. I guess you would have us all believe that your secret sauce is worth the difference and places your DAC in another league?

I'll tell you one thing, I think you would sell a lot more of these units at $500-700. I am interested in hearing this DAC but not at the current pricing.

mikechai · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 May 2006, 03:35 am »

Quote from: BrassEar

Thanks for the info. I for one:

1. Have NO problems using a large battery to power a DAC.
2. Have NO problems buying a dac on a board without a chassis.
3. Have NO problems putting together my own chassis should I so desire.
4. Have NO interest in trying to impress friends and fellow audiophiles with a pretty chassis with lights, etc.

However, I DO have a problem with the price of this DAC. Just look at the competition and you can find several excellent NOS DACs with FABULOUS performance (regardles ...

Yes I reckon the pricing is on the high side. But if it does crashes the competition, for example the Cosecant, Twindac+, Zanden etc then I have no problem with the price.

But then who's going to give it a shot and tell us the result?