[paul canady]

Should the p8 be plugged into power conditoner or directly into wall?

[rustydoglim]

P-8 uses a switching power supply and we recommend that it plugs into a good surge protector with filter instead of power conditioner. This is a less costly solution as the SMPS already provides the function of the power conditioner.

[Occam]

Hi Paul,

It looks like deja vu' all over again -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26371
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25791.msg233975#233975
save for the fact that because we are dealing with lower level signals, mains noise is has even more impact, but proper powerconditioning is easier and less expensive to implement.

Obviously, Jason and I disagree on this matter, and the discussion inevitably devolves to 'he said, she said'. (I'll take that role of 'she' )
As the proof is allways in the pudding, and empirical verification is the only true way to resolve such disagreements, I'd like to ask where you live and see if I can arrange for you to borrow a  Felicia balancing power conditioner, so that you can make your own judgements.

Regards,
Paul #2

[ndeslions]

I use an Audiophile APS 1050 conditioner and it's definitely better with it than without for my Ref 9.

[Daemon]

I know this subject has been done all over this forum, but I still find it more than a little confusing.

I have 2 ref 9 and a p8. I live in Australia and as far as I can tell, the only power conditioner that's available here, that is also available in the US, is Shunyata. They're made here, but if you think i'm going to spend $5000au on six filter caps and a TMOV you've got another thing coming (I'm not too keen on spending more for a power filter than I did on the amps to start with).  Otherwise, none of the things you guys talk about can be had here, as they're all designed for 110v or whatever it is you guys use.

Power supply where I live is notoriously dodgy. It's supposedly 240v 50Hz, but in reality it fluctuates around 213 to 225v most days and may crawl up towards 235v at night, and can be a bit variable in frequency too (old style digital clocks that use the mains as a timing signal are a real laugh here). We have significant brown outs daily, wonderful surges at unpredictable intervals, variable power factor and probably a fair amount of noise on the lines too.

At the moment I've just got a everything running through a power board that I star wired, and a surge protector, but I suspect I'd get better sound with consitant clean power, and I wouldn't mind isolating sources, pre and power amps from each other. Due to a cathedral sealing and double brick walls, running a dedicated loop for the stereo is also not a viable option, as to do it half the roof would have to come off the house and the wife objects to such things.

I really don't understand the differences between the various power conditioners / filters that you're all talking about, so I don't really know what to look for amongst the very few things that are available here. I've had a friend suggest that the best possible way to do it would be to run things off an on-line UPS, but the term 'non current limiting' keeps coming up and I don't know if an UPS would fit this bill . I'm also seriously considering trying to build something to do the job, but of course, I have no idea what to build or what a good design may be.

I'd appreciate any advice, insights or pointers any of you could give that might clear this up a bit for me.

[ndeslions]

Most of the products called conditionners are not conditionners, just filters; but as the marketing guys thinks that "conditionner" sounds (so sells) better....
The Shunyata Hydra is a filter.

The only real conditionners i know are Audiophile APS and Exact power.

You can also use a online UPS, just check that it does a sinus output.
The main problem with the computer UPS is their noise but if you can put it in another room it will be ok and you will have a great improvement at a great price.

[Occam]

Daemon,

From my experience with NuForce and other switching power supply audio components, I've heard great gains from good passive power conditioning. Because switching supplies are to a certain extent self regulating in that they operate with a broad range of AC mains voltages, 90-240vac in the case of NuForce, its actually easier to implement low cost powerful conditioners for these components than for linear supplied components. As you've built your own power distibution board, I'd suggest some DIY. There is a DIY 'Shunyata' conditioner as well as the Lab's own 'Felicia' conditioner. As this is in contradiction to NuForce's recommedations, it would be more appropriate to do this on another circle. If you wish, start a thread "Power Conditioning for Switching Supplied Components" on the Lab board, and we can follow up there.


ndeslions,

Indeed, the terminology of power 'xxxx's is often confusing and contradictory. There are regenerators (I'm using that term loosely), Exact Power, APS, PsAudio, Pacific Power, Elgar, etc..., UPSs, and what you define as filters. And those loose divisions can have substantial overlap.  I believe your isssue is whether that conditioning is active or passive.  Nevertheless, a filter is a power conditioner, and until the world adopts your nomenclature, or another's, we will continue be mired in confusion.

[Gordy]

I've found that all switching supply's and amps are very responsive / sensitive to the quality of the power feeding them.   DVD players, switching supply switching amps like the Teac 700P or even linear supplied switching amps like DIY Hypex's or Carver Tripath, all have gained in clarity, blackness, detail when fed with (in my case) a BPT, a Felicia or when appropriate, even a 'lowly' isolation transformer like the OneAC.  

Even though the iso transformers don't provide all the conditioning of a balanced system, they are still quite effective and very inexpensive on ebay, US $10-12 per amp.  They're available in 240v versions and, should they not prove worthwhile to you, they can be resold on ebay without the usual 40-60% loss in investment.  Can't say for sure, but I suspect the main benefit with the OneAC's is that they prevent swps noise from contaminating the AC line/grounds even further...  like I said, just my experience