FINDING THE BETTER TUBE PRE

Vince · « **on:** 26 May 2003, 03:39 pm »

hi,

Currently using a Sony DVD + Sony ES receiver as pre, Odyssey Stratos, Maggie 1.6., and think the best upgrade right now would be a tube Pre. Have tried a Bottlehead Foreplay once, and liked the sound improvement (it also scared me half to death when it increased the volume by itself high enough to blow a fuse of a Maggie).

But, there are many choices for tubed Pres - Norh, Antique Labs, Radii, just to name a few....
Which is your tube Pre champion in the sub 1K class??

Ron D · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 May 2003, 04:10 pm »

Rogue 66 Magnum - only bettered by my 99 Magnum at a substantial investment!

Hantra · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 May 2003, 07:13 pm »

Vince:

Under $1K, I'd go for a used Kora. I haven't heard anything that compares favorably with it except for the CAT Signature, but it's $5K, and I like the Kora better. People might trash French gear, but this is one piece that is a world-beater, and it can be had cheap. Right now there are some on Audiogon. . .

B

Danny Richie · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 May 2003, 08:51 pm »

Dodd Audio makes the best I have heard.

He also has just released a killer deal on a no frills, high end pre-amp. I posted some info on it here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=2484

Check it out.

His reference pre-amp is the best I have heard at any price point and we have compared it to some of the best pre-amps in the industry. I think he has a bare bones version of it that he put into a chassis that he had (the pre-amps power supply is in a separate chassis) on hand that he can make a pretty killer deal on too.

Call him or e-mail him for info. His e-mail and phone number are at the bottom of the post I included a link for.

Ferdi · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 May 2003, 10:12 pm »

Hi Vince, it seems you didn't like the Bottlehead. What happened with that? I remember swapping some messages on that last year.

KKM · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 May 2003, 11:19 pm »

Check out a used Marsh 2000t for under 1k at AG. I use it with my Maggie 3.6 and Bryston 4B-ST and conveys incredible detail and music, SS amp and tube pre is the way to go with Maggies. Only drawback is no remote and occasional microphony which probably can be cure with new/better tubes. The SS version received accolades from TAS . Some info from website:

A superior perfromance tube preamp with triode tube, one of the most linear devices ever developed was designed for the lowest distortion possible. Here it is combined with the FET, creating a new and entirely modern circuit called the " Trans-Mu amplification stage." This brings out all the benefits of the triode tube- extremely low noise, wide frequency response, low distortion - and eliminates the triode's drawbacks.Each channel uses two triode tubes with a push-pull output for low output impedance. The P2000t is able to drive even the longest cables without music deterioration.The filament voltage is direct voltage through a powerful C-multiplier filter, which ensure the lowest noise and the longest, most reliable operation. How low is low? Dead quiet-so you can hear event the most subtle elements in the music. Marsh-designed capacitors provide great accuracy and high-resolution of details- for the most realistic music reproduction possible and for reliable, long-life performance.Both line amplifiers are fitted with remote 12VDC control for custom installation and easy on/off control of other equipment in the system.

MSD-P2000T Specifications:

Frequency Response, 20-20,000 Hz +/- 0.1 dB

THD+noise at 1 Vrms, 20-20,000 Hz <0.05%

Input Impedance 50 kOhms

Maximum Gain 23 dB

Signal to Noise ratio, A weighted 90 dB

Maximum Output at 1kHz 8 Vrms

Crosstalk at 1 kHz -90 dB

Crosstalk at 10 kHz -90 dB

Input Power AC 110-120 V, 60 Hz

Power consumption 30 W

Size 19" W x 4 1/2" H x 13" D

Weight Net 13 lbs (5.8 kgs), Shipping 16 lbs (7.2 kgs)

Kishore · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 May 2003, 11:48 pm »

Quote from: Danny

Dodd Audio makes the best I have heard.

He also has just released a killer deal on a no frills, high end pre-amp. I posted some info on it here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=2484

Check it out.

His reference pre-amp is the best I have heard at any price point and we have compared it to some of the best pre-amps in the industry. I think he has a bare bones version of it that he put into a chassis that he had (the pre-amps power supply is in a separate chassis) on hand that he ca ...

Gary (Dodd) is a great guy and quiet genius

. He can custom build for you..definitely give him a call. I would have definitely bought/tried his toys if I had stayed longer in Dallas.

Cheers,
Kishore

Hantra · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 May 2003, 12:04 am »

I totally agree about the Marsh. It is a very nice sounding pre, and extremely well built using high quality parts! I have a friend with one for sale that he only used for a few hours . . . I'd buy it if I didn't have the Kora with the expensive tubes. . hehe

B

Vince · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 May 2003, 10:56 am »

Thanks for all the suggestions posted. Will make start searching the net on the Pre's suggersted.
Ferdi, about the Foreplay - Had difficulty to get it to work. When it finally worked, it sounded nice. Imagine that, and this is before it proper burn in, before getting better tubes, before installing the upgrades I bought already..... This was looking good. I liked it a lot.
However, at once, all by itself, the volume increased tremendously, it played VERY VERY loud in a second of so, followed by an awful popping sound.....Blew a fuse of one of my Maggies speakers...scary stuff. Fortunately nor speaker nor Stratos were damaged.
Stored the Foreplay "safely" in a high cabinet, to run through the circuits later. Then another member of the family was looking for something in that cabinet ....the Foreplay fell 8ft down, on solid concrete. Needless to say it will never play again.

Ferdi · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 May 2003, 03:56 pm »

Hi Vince, too bad about the Foreplay. I guess it knew too much

)

Vince · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 May 2003, 05:55 pm »

Can't say I had much luck with it, in total it cost me abt. USD 375,- and played for 2 hours!

I'm sure next time will be better - Just need to find the right pre for the job. Noticed that no-one commented on the pre's I was considering, Norh, Radii, and so. I wonder why that is??

byteme · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 May 2003, 06:08 pm »

Vince,

You may also want to check out Philly Audio - http://www.phillyaudio.com/id26.html . They advertise on A-gon as well. I just got the Blues 7b Ver. II a couple weeks ago and am very happy with it. I got in on a very good price for it and would definately recommend it. You can find my review in the Critics area here. I, also, used to have a Foreplay - in my system it hummed like a mother... - but it did sound very good outside of that. I think that's what hooked me on tubes in the preamp! The Blues does benefit from a tube change, I love it with Tung Sol 396a's that I got for $40 for the matched quad.

Pez · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 May 2003, 06:48 pm »

I have the Radii and I love it. It is the second best pre-amp I have heard in my system. the first was the Erchluctung whic also cost 8X more than the Radii. I have been using it for almost 8-9 months and in that time I have heard numerous pre-amps. I just love the way the Radii sounds. As far as nOrh I'm not sure if you are asking about the new one, but the Radii replaced my old ACA and it was much MUCH better than the ACA.

BWentler · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 May 2003, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: Vince

hi,

Currently using a Sony DVD + Sony ES receiver as pre, Odyssey Stratos, Maggie 1.6., and think the best upgrade right now would be a tube Pre. Have tried a Bottlehead Foreplay once, and liked the sound improvement (it also scared me half to death when it increased the volume by itself high enough to blow a fuse of a Maggie).

But, there are many choices for tubed Pres - Norh, Antique Labs, Radii, just to name a few....
Which is your tube Pre champion in the sub 1K class??

I suggest a used Melos SHA-Gold and sending it to Melos Audio Restorations (http://www.melosaudio.com) for the standard upgrade/restoration the their new all tube upgrade. I have one and it sound almost as good as their MA-333 all upgraded/restored by MAR. The only difference is the MA-333 has better detail for it is a true dual mono from the PS on up to the outputs.

I also have Odyssey Audio amps but they are the Extreme Mono's and it just sings with both the SHA-Gold and the MA-333 pre-amps.

When you can't play music loud, the SHA-Gold is the best headphone amp also.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 May 2003, 09:45 pm »

If you like the Melos 333, Mark Nash is selling his and is asking $950.

This one has been upgraded by Dodd Audio.

Why is Mark selling it? Because he is getting a Dodd Audio reference pre-amp that is even better.

Gary has also replicated the Melos 333 circuit with a few mods that make it more reliable and more stable, it uses better caps (the new Sonicaps), it is in a simple no frills chassis with one output and two inputs, for $450. All day long and as many as you want.

JoshK · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 May 2003, 10:36 pm »

Has this Dodd Audio got a website?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 May 2003, 10:51 pm »

Dodd Audio does not have a web site, yet.

Gary is a brilliant engineer, but not a marketer.

Since becoming friends with Gary Dodd I have tried to help him promote himself and his products to the rest of the industry. I think he has been one of the little know gems of the industry

Most of what he has done in the past has been custom designs, but he has just recently developed a more complete product line.

The best recommendation is to call him up and tell him what you want, or what you are looking for. He'll tell you what he has and what he can do.

Here is some pics of some of the stuff he brought to the 2002 DIY event that he helped sponsor last year: http://www.gr-research.com/diyevents/dodd.htm

OBF · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 May 2003, 03:49 pm »

I was just going to ask if Dodd Audio can build any remote controlled preamps, then I checked your link and noticed the reference model is remote controlled. So..., now I'm wondering if he can add a remote to any of his more modestly priced versions?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 May 2003, 04:03 pm »

Gary's remote control units, like everything else, are a work of art. The hand held unit is made from milled aluminum.

The motorized attenuators are not cheap either so I would not guess it to be a cheap option.

But the best thing to do is call him and ask him.

JoshK · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 May 2003, 04:36 pm »

Dare I ask how much for those GORGEOUS 120 mono blocks?