[pennylane]

I have a pretty good 4.0 set-up (at least for a guy who only works during summer).  But I really want a sub.  I originally started getting into home audio, first getting 2 speakers and a receiver.  I've since added surround speakers and became interested in home theater.  My speakers are good for music, but with movies, I sometimes feel like some moments lack some visceral punch.

Now I really want to add a sub.  However, I'm concerned about being rude to my neighbors.  I have neighbors both above and below me.  I prefer a balanced sound, so I won't be blasting the sub like crazy or anything.

Can I fully enjoy a subwoofer in this kind of setting?  Anybody have experiences with this sort of thing?

Will things like the Auralex GRAMMA make it worthwhile?

*EDIT* I posted this later down the thread but if somebody new hasn't seen this thread yet, I'll also paste it here.

I wasn't sure if this info was relevant but I guess it kind of is, so I'll mention it here.  I have a pretty small budget.  I'm a student and I basically got my current set-up (see my signature--though I do know my TV model number now and have properly configured it... at least to my abilities) from some summer internships.  I may not get any money this summer, but if I do, I'll probably have only about $500 to spend.

My current mains are Polk LSi9's.  I have a pretty small room (20 ft x 13 ft) and not that big of a TV.  I'm pretty pleased with my set-up, especially for music.  The bass is solid, especially for a bookshelf, and I don't feel like I'm missing much.  

I was originally looking at the SVS PB10-ISD.  It's gotten plenty of good reviews and is in my price range.  I don't want muddy or boomy bass.  I want something I can still use with music without being overpowering or "slow."  While I do want some "visceral punch," I don't want anything or overwhelming.  Just more of a presence.

I'm quite happy with a phantom center right now.  I suppose the phantom center isn't good for people who don't sit in the middle of the couch, but to be honest, half the time I do most of my serious movie watching (and music listening) alone (not really something my friends are into), so I don't feel like I'm missing out by not having a center channel.  Due to physical constraints, I don't think I'd be able to put a center channel in the proper place anyway.

A center is something I'd consider, but unless it can go lower (and do it better) than my LSi9's, with my budget, I'd rather save money and not get a center at all.  So how big is a full-range "large" center channel dimension-wise?  It seems like a potential solution.  I thought the front 3 speakers should all match, at least brandwise?  That would put me in a situation where I should get an LSiC, correct?  Does that quality as a full-range "large" center channel?  

Where can I find more information about dipole subwoofers?  That also seems like a solution.

Basically, this is all a test balloon.  If I can find something that can add to the low-end without being rude, I'll consider it.  If not, for now I'll be happy with my current set-up.  However, I'm probably going to be living in one apartment or another for a few more years, so I would definitely like to do be able to do something eventually.

[goskers]

My take is that most apartments are built like crap.  If you can hear your neighbors walking above you then there is a great chance that you rent one of such quality.  It will not take much bass to start disturbing the other's in the building.

One the other hand; if you currently own a decent stereo and have not heard any complaints then I would say don't worry about it.  It is common practice to have to put up with other resident's music/ht every once in a while.

[sts9fan]

Get a center first. It is the most important speaker for movies

[JoshK]

Any NYC dweller knows what it is like have neighbors (apartment or coop) and many of us still have nice stereos (and subs).  The thing to do as I see it is talk to your neighbors, give them your number and say call me if it is too excessive or I am bothering you.   If you have cool neighbors then they are much more likely to be tolerant if you have spoken with them.

They will also be less likely to file a complaint to your landlord and such.

[Levi]

I second sts9fan, a center channel anchors the sound to the screen regardless on your sitting location.

As far as the subsystem goes, you probably already know your neighbors' tolarance level.  Use your best judgment.  e.g. turn-down sub after 9pm.  Use sound pressure meter.  Ultra-low bass can really shake walls and fixtures next door.

Check out REL subwoofer system.  You will find it excellent in 2ch and multi-channel integration.  When setup correctly, it can be very satisfying without it attracting attention to itself.  A good quality subsystem would be less boomy or actually not boomy at all just plain good old bass!

You can get a pretty good price at Augon.

[nathanm]

Can I fully enjoy a subwoofer in this kind of setting?

No!

Anybody have experiences with this sort of thing?

Yes!

Your kind-hearted concern for your neighbors means that you must suffer the pains of Almost Enjoyable Sound due to Bass Transmission Guilt Complex.  It is a horrible horrible self-inflicted psychological malady.  There is a cure for this disease, but it will cost you a fortune.

You may want to consider a tacticle transducer, but without a sub it is still sadly just not the same.  How does that go, there's no replacement for displacement?  Yes, indeed.

[Jason1]

If your neighbors frequently play loud music, have parties, and bang the headboard against your wall, then by all means get a big sub and crank it up to 11  

If you live in a nice quiet apartment then you would probably be out of line  

[kfr01]

Get a center first. It is the most important speaker for movies

This has been the best advice listed.  Buy a full-range "Large" center channel, and you'll likely not need a subwoofer for many surround applications.

May I suggest the Exodus Audio LCR:

http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/KITLCR.htm

With response 30 Hz to 20 kHz,  ±3 dB anechoic, this will provide deeper response than many cheap subwoofers.

[Builder Brad]

this is a bit unconventional for HT, consider a diy Dipole sub. This speaker design is less coupled with the structure of the building and causes fewer standing waves that cause boominess that is found with most subs.

another benefit is more realistic and accurate bass when compared to HT subs

[Russell Dawkins]

Pennylane,
I think the terms "visceral punch" and "apartment" may be somewhat in conflict.

I am inclined to agree with Builder Brad in that dipole bass cancels out somewhat in the big picture and is least likely to transfer into the next room, but sounds great if you situate yourself within the lobes.

However, since you used the term visceral punch, I suspect you are in fact looking for something that goes real low and is slightly boomy, i.e. with some overhang. For that you will need box speakers.

Either way, it would also help to position the sub(s) as close as possible to the listening position. Ideally, this would require delay on the subs if they are much closer to you than the mains, 1 msec. per foot path length difference.

You could also consider a pair of shakers attached to the couch (or directly to your belt buckle) for the sensation of punch without the sound.

If it were me, though, I'd buy a pair of cheap, efficient 15 inchers (a second pair later) and mount them in an open baffle, leaving space for the second pair.Then I'd get a Behringer active crossover, which includes delay, and some dirt cheap little amp until I could afford what I really wanted, by which time the 15s would be broken in.

[pennylane]

I wasn't sure if this info was relevant but I guess it kind of is, so I'll mention it here.  I have a pretty small budget.  I'm a student and I basically got my current set-up (see my signature--though I do know my TV model number now and have properly configured it... at least to my abilities) from some summer internships.  I may not get any money this summer, but if I do, I'll probably have only about $500 to spend.

My current mains are Polk LSi9's.  I have a pretty small room (20 ft x 13 ft) and not that big of a TV.  I'm pretty pleased with my set-up, especially for music.  The bass is solid, especially for a bookshelf, and I don't feel like I'm missing much.  

I was originally looking at the SVS PB10-ISD.  It's gotten plenty of good reviews and is in my price range.  I don't want muddy or boomy bass.  I want something I can still use with music without being overpowering or "slow."  While I do want some "visceral punch," I don't want anything or overwhelming.  Just more of a presence.

I'm quite happy with a phantom center right now.  I suppose the phantom center isn't good for people who don't sit in the middle of the couch, but to be honest, half the time I do most of my serious movie watching (and music listening) alone (not really something my friends are into), so I don't feel like I'm missing out by not having a center channel.  Due to physical constraints, I don't think I'd be able to put a center channel in the proper place anyway.

A center is something I'd consider, but unless it can go lower (and do it better) than my LSi9's, with my budget, I'd rather save money and not get a center at all.  So how big is a full-range "large" center channel dimension-wise?  It seems like a potential solution.  I thought the front 3 speakers should all match, at least brandwise?  That would put me in a situation where I should get an LSiC, correct?  Does that quality as a full-range "large" center channel?  

Where can I find more information about dipole subwoofers?  That also seems like a solution.

Basically, this is all a test balloon.  If I can find something that can add to the low-end without being rude, I'll consider it.  If not, for now I'll be happy with my current set-up.  However, I'm probably going to be living in one apartment or another for a few more years, so I would definitely like to be able to do something eventually.

[Russell Dawkins]

I am guessing you have included Hsu in your search for subs. They have a long history of offering good value.

If you haven't, look here, for a start.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/

[CornellAlum]

There is a much easier solution that will allow you to do pretty much whatever you would like without pounding the foundation if you will.  I have my vmps larger resting on two auralex subdudes.  Once adding them into the fray, the complaints stopped and the sound improved.  Is there really a better solution than that?!

[hmen]

There's a difference between augmenting your bass with a sub for music and the way a sub is used in home theatre. In home theatre the sub is often used to shake the room and that would definitely affect your neighbors.

[PhilNYC]

There's a difference between augmenting your bass with a sub for music and the way a sub is used in home theatre. In home theatre the sub is often used to shake the room and that would definitely affect your neighbors.

Yep.  When I lived in NYC, I had two systems...a 2-channel high end system (Blue Circle electronics, Audio Physic Virgo speakers) for music and a mid-fi 5.1 system (Denon av receiver, Energy Encore 5.1 speakers).  I used to play my music pretty loud well into the night, and received no complaints from my neighbors.  But one night, I'm watching Star Wars Episode I - Phantom Menace (yes, I admit it!), and about halfway thru the pod-race scene, I get a call from my neighbors from downstairs who asked (sarcastically) if I had brought a Harley-Davidson into the apartment.  The sub, with only an 8" driver, was shaking the floor pretty hard...

[pennylane]

I see what you mean.  It doesn't look like a sub would work very well.  I may just get a center channel then, but if I do, shouldn't I get the Polk LSiC, since it matches my mains?

[cytocycle]

I lived in apartments with my Velodyne 18" sub, and could really use it.. so I used Bass shakers in my couch! The Newer buttkicker would be a really excellent and fun solution.  If you insist on a sub, then look at the Aurlex (no experience but cheap) otherwise I have found that the Aurio Pro's isolated the sub from downstairs quite nicely.

Chris

[Eric5676]

I recommend something like the Buttkicker LFE kit or other comparable product so you can have all the awesome effects of bass without annoying any surrounding neighbors or even other people in the same house or apartment.

[Wind Chaser]

Go open baffle.  I just received a pair of Hawthorne Audio 15" Augies, these go deep without any kind of enclosure.  Had them crank up loud and no complaints from the neighbors!

You could buy one of these with a decent plate amp, build U-OB and be well within your price range with top quality bass that will slay anything for a lot more money.

[guest1632]

Hey Jimmy, I can't send you a PM, because your box is full. I did get your info you sent me, but I can't reply to it. Empty/clean out your PM box please? Thanks.

Ray