Why doesn't someone make better tubes?

Hantra · « **on:** 22 May 2003, 03:36 pm »

All:

I was sitting here thinking about how much I am paying for these NOS Siemens tubes, and I can't help but wonder why someone doesn't make tubes nowadays that are as good or better than NOS.

I mean, how much can it possibly cost to make a tube? Sure, we can't make them here as cheap as the Russians, or Yugos, but we could surely make them better. There has to be a way to make a better tube than NOS now and charge a premium for it. Seems like a good money making opportunity.

Look at companies like Sophia Electric, and what they get for their tubes. Just wondering why no one has done it in the US. Surely guys with money to burn have thought about it. . .

B

cjr888 · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 May 2003, 03:43 pm »

Outside of the Sophia's, you have the KR's which are pretty impressive... There's also the AVVTs and TJ/FullMusic's, but one company that some folks have been pretty happy with seems to be the Valve Art's, and I believe diyhifisupply has some decent prices on them....

What types of tubes do your components take?

Hantra · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 May 2003, 03:48 pm »

I just got three Siemens 6922's for my pre-amp, and they kill you on the ones with the grey getters. . .

I didn't know KR or Sophia made the smaller input tubes. . .
I'll have to check them out. . .

B

cjr888 · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 May 2003, 04:53 pm »

Actually, I hate to say it, but they don't...

I believe KR only does output, and Sophia does output and rectifiers...

I'll look him up later, as I can't remember names/handles, but there's someone over at Decware that seems to have done a lot of rolling with new production tubes. I'll try and direct you to some threads...

As for being done in the US -- as there's so much work done by hand, I'd also assume it would probably be an expensive venture to do everything within the country...

And I've got to assume its a tough business if you're only marketing to the home audio world, and not major industry, etc as well...

But I'm with ya, sure would be nice.

Eric D · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 May 2003, 05:17 pm »

Quote from: Hantra

I just got three Siemens 6922's for my pre-amp, and they kill you on the ones with the grey getters. . .

I didn't know KR or Sophia made the smaller input tubes. . .
I'll have to check them out. . .B

Quote

but one company that some folks have been pretty happy with seems to be the Valve Art's, and I believe diyhifisupply has some decent prices on them....

I'm pretty new to this field, but in checking out diyhifisupply, I noticed that Valve Art makes a 6DJ8. Isn't that a replacement for the 6922s (they're what I have in my NT CD4000)? If so, any word on the Valve Art version?

Eric

Carlman · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 May 2003, 05:47 pm »

Sorry to give such a dry Economics answer but...
It's probably because the supply of NOS is satisfying demand. Maybe when tubes get to be $100/each vs. $100/4 then there will be a market...? I don't know. Most people accept NOS as the best. I have some Amperex A-Frames that I think rock. If a better tube was made, how much would it cost and how much better would it be?

I wondered what would happen when we ran out of NOS and just have 'OOS'.

There's a fixed amount of NOS out there... it's just a matter of time. However, when that happens, I hope there's more available than the Yugo's and Russian's tubes.

Hantra · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 May 2003, 06:17 pm »

Quote

Maybe when tubes get to be $100/each vs. $100/4 then there will be a market...?

Heh. . . You priced any Siemens 6922's lately? $119.00 each is the best I could find. . .

I do think your answer is a good one though. I find that simple economics can explain many things. I just wish I could build a tube better than the Siemens and sell it for the same money. . . $$$$!

B

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 May 2003, 07:51 pm »

fortunately, my particular preamp seems to be relatively toob-insensitive. i loaded up on several sets of amperex orange globe & bugle-boy nos tubes for not-too-much $$$, so i should be set for quite some time.

if yer equipment is sensitive to toob-rolling, & ya don't wanna spend the big bucks, i'd suggest cryogenics - supposed to be a killer toob tweek. this company does it, w/o being a total rip-off, unlike some other cryo-toob guys i've seen out there...

http://tubeman.com/cat8_1.htm

doug s.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 May 2003, 01:19 am »

Hantra et al,

I think it's simply economics. Us audio crazed folks are the only ones needing much of tube stuff, so the demand ain't huge; so we get few (new tube) supply options in turn.

I heard once there were only 200,000 two channel audiophiles in the US...a number than has changed remarkably little in many years (if anything, may be less these days with video, surround sound as competition for your listening time). Of the 200,000, not all listen with tube equipment.

Worldwide, there may be less than 500,000 two channel enthusiasts that give a rats butt about tubes...

I own a Saab. I like it, but they've never made more than 125,000 cars any year. The list of after market parts (performacnce primarily) is very small...as it should be because the cars out there are relatively small in number (don't mention Porshe being smaller, that's a different type of car entirely

) If someone could make a serious buck making Saab aftermarket performance parts, it would exist.

Law of supply and demand at work.

BTW - I like the new Sovvie 6922's better than more expensive old Sovvie 'Rocket' 6H23's..and better than some other NOS 6922's heard, too.

d911 · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 May 2003, 08:51 pm »

Believe it or not, most of the tubes listed, KR, Valve Art , TJ, Emmision Labs and others are made by the same factory. They are purchased and perhaps subjected to different test criteria and labeled via the purchaser. I do not pay crazy prices for tubes. Here is the short of it (as I see it), most people spend crazy money on NOS tubes in order to fix the sound of a poorly designed amp. 5692 tubes for instance are great sounding tubes, but i would never pay $50.00/each for them. A very good alternative is the Electrohamonix 6SN7. It is a very good sounding tube. When we as a collective group of purchasers stop giving in to the tube mongers (and I am not angry at all tube resellers, some are making a decent profit without robbing the public) we can drive the prices back to normal. For instance, (I am naming them, because they advertised the tube at this price) thetubestore was selling the 6C33C-B tubes for $54.95 (they have since lowered it to $39.95). You can buy that tube all day long at gstubes.com for $15.00 each and $11.00 each for quantities of 100 and up. happy listening