[nodiak]

Ashok , just ordered tubalizer, thanks for the link and idea. Should be interesting. Cool that it can be used several ways, including with my ss guitar amp that is one of those "tube sounding" types, can make it more real now.


Funny, I went surfing yesterday afternoon...feeling sick , head cold, too weak to paddle out, caught a couple small ones, torqued by a couple others...basically a complicated way of gargling salt water. Feel much better.  

Don

[kbuzz3]

Thanks for the link to  Autocostruire

Their little integrated with the tube front end combined with the digital amp is a pretty cool idea.

Now that is a great idea-particuarly for an office or 2nd system. Has anyone heard it?  Why isnt anyone in the states jumping on this. I mean there seems to be a lot of folks going digital with a tube front end

http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=294

[JLM]

So don't hold back Doc, feel free to let us know how you really feel.      

Don, I agree with you regarding the Silver Iris, a remarkable open baffle beast, easy to live with, but lacks audiophile resolution.

Winter heating bills, car repairs, and landscaping costs in a new house have been keeping me from moving ahead with my audio addiction.  Room treatments are next, then some tweaking is in order, and finally that tube pre-amp.  (The 1 volt output of the modded SB3 has convinced me to forgo a simple buffer.)

[Dmason]

We thank the Dean of Applied Pedantics for joining us.

Dean, what direction do you intend to head in if you already have realized all the correct choices necessary for a "thinking man's" audio system? Where else is there for you to go? Please share your research with us.  Perhaps something new and proactive from your desk.

[nodiak]

JLM, really not trying to gang up on you but hey don't suggest you're agreeing with me when you judge SI's as "lacks audiophile resolution". I never said that, you did all on your own.
 
I said they are a relax on the patio in the sun speaker, and that I am looking for a little more tightness and definition. For all I know when I'm done I may find that tightness and definition in pre amp tube rolling or another component, and the SI's may be the perfect speaker to let that through - for me and my ears. Maybe, maybe not.

I find people are falling out of the "stereo"typical "audiophile" image more and more as more honest and affordable and great equipment comes around and more of us non audiophiles get into it. Who knows maybe someday an "audiophile" will be someone capable of relaxing in the sun on the patio and listening to music without feeling guilty for not being all perked up at attention in some narrow sweet spot.

Take care fellow music lover.
Don

[-Richard-]

Hi kbuzz3,

Thanks for providing the link for the Audiodigit Class T/Tube digital hybrid amplifier...

It looks like there is a growing recognition that a well implemented tube "presence" in
the all-over sound of class T amplifiers is helping that topology to extend its
performance to a more "dimensional" presentation...less flat...less slim tonally...
however with those features that digital should be able to convey quite well...
perhaps greater bass control and sheer detail...

It seems that there is still a certain uneasy recognition that modest powered
well-implemented tube topologies...built around 45 or 2A3 or DMason's and
Roger Modjeski's latest interest, the 6EM7 scan tubes used in older TV circuits...
do not quite have the sonic muscle or "control" that digital amplifiers can provide...

This is a myth...that seems to be hard to blow fresh air into...

However, putting that aside for the moment...the idea of an "integrated"/self-contained
amp that merges tubes with tri-paths 2020 boards is a very interesting development...

And I like the fact that tubes are playing an important role in this...I am very curious
to hear what this sounds like...especially as designers become more sophisticated
in this kind of hybrid design...

Thanks again kbuzz3, for keeping us informed...

JLM,

it seems quite clear that nodiak/Don is a very nicely tempered and reasonable fellow...
he has portrayed his modification of the original crossover for the Silver Iris
Coaxial's very clearly...and has characterized its performance with a disciplined
use of metaphore...so that anyone who is considering purchasing this driver
knows what to expect...at least as much as anyone of us can hope to get from
another's personal experience...

Why do have this incessant need to sabotage this product? And at the same
time to pour your acrid comments over nodiak's fun and explorations?
I believe your neurotic response to the SIC suggests a nasty zealotry that
DMason seems to be pointing to...

Hi nodiak,

I am deeply interested in all of your explorations...I consider your investigative
spirit to exemplify what makes Audiocircle so interesting...please keep us informed...
I deeply appreciate your reaching deeply within yourself to describe your findings
with accuracy and humor...

Warm Regards -Richard-

[miklorsmith]

Interesting banter, all.  I have to admit the Silver Iris drivers are really interesting to me and the more discussion and experimentation, the better.  The large size says to me that these puppies can move serious air even in an OB, and that is seriously cool.

Sadly enough for me, my room will not support OB's.  It's a pretty big room but configured to allow speakers only 18" into the room, and that's pushing it.  My speakers now are only about 9" off the back wall.  But, hearing how others are doing it lets me live vicariously and hopefully, I'll be able to hear a well-implemented OB system some day.

As to JLM's observations of the SI's personality, I don't doubt his observations.  From what I remember, his hearing of these was limited to one session on a fairly new pair, probably not fully broken in or optimized in its space, driven by lesser electronics than present in his system.  Given these parameters, I would have been very surprised to hear glowing reports.

I do think that we spewers need to be careful where we place our opinions and how we qualify them.  Kevin Haskins has made the astute statement that he has seen interest/sales jump and fall resulting from comments made on audio boards.  Whether we like it or not, we do have at least some yoke of responsibility for the bits we unleash on the public domain.

I'm still smitten with my Clari-T amp.  After a couple of months, the modded Teac is really coming into its own too.  Both are detailed without being overly so and both track complexities extremely well.  The Clari-T with the Definitions had superb tonal balance/speed balance with the Modwright in the system.  I've lost some tone going with the TacT preamp, but now I bump the bass when I feel like rockin'.  I have a 45 tube amp coming, hopefully in the next week, that should restore previous equilibrium with autonomous bass control over the subs.

The Teac with VMPS 626r's and Vinnie SB is a very clean sound and most enjoyable, but boy could it use a tubed buffer.  This rig is excellent for a SS system but I have tubes in sight for this rig.  I think a lot of people would like it just the way it is, which is a real testament to well-implemented Tripath amps - they can be tuned to suit tubeheads or SS fans.

[-Richard-]

Hi Miklorsmith,

Sage words from one of AC's most carefully disciplined members...thanks as
always for your feedback and wisdom...

Please tell us what 45 amp you have ordered...and also please let us know
how things are working out with your new 45 amp once you have had a chance
to burn it in...I am very interested in all SET implementations...

I am becoming convinced that a well implemented SET...where the circuit design is
thoughtfully worked out...all sound splendid!!!! allowing these wondrous tubes
to engage the music with its special magic...

For the record: my B200's are very close to the back wall...perhaps a foot away...
I found that bringing it out into the room past the 1 foot distance has no appreciable
effect on the magic I am hearing with them...in fact I felt there was a lose of certain
dynamic possibilities further away from the back wall...this may just be the nature
of my room...or my listening proclivities...there are so many variables going on here
that I would have to do a lot more detective work than I have so far to determine
what is exactly making things work so well in this configuration...

However, my recommendation to anyone who is interested in exploring the world of
the OB is to start with the B200...if you have a tone control you may never need
to go further...no sub neccessary with my bass tone control on my SEPentode
6 watt integrated amp...top end is delicate, resolving, silky...

The Hawthorne Silver Iris Coaxial has wonderful attributes and is a splendid example
of what the OB sound is like when moved off center to a midrange weighted
sonic presentation...perhaps the tweeter needs a bit of work to fully flesh out the upper
frequencies to anything close to what the B200's do with aplomb...

However, JLM has bashed this speaker every chance he gets with a disdain
and lack of balance that is manic and down right nasty...

There are many audio enthusiasts that like the speaker JLM is currently using...
and I happen to know several highly respected audio enthusiasts that find
his current speaker a very poor implementation of its type...but these people
do not bash his speaker choices every time he mentions them...

JLM is on a crusade to hurt Darrel Hawthrone because of personal reasons...
which I will not go into here...some maturity is what is necessary here...and
the kind of personal discipline that JLM professes to posses...

Warm Regards -Richard-

[woodsyi]

I do think that we spewers need to be careful where we place our opinions and how we qualify them. Kevin Haskins has made the astute statement that he has seen interest/sales jump and fall resulting from comments made on audio boards. Whether we like it or not, we do have at least some yoke of responsibility for the bits we unleash on the public domain.

A cat needs a scratching post, a dog needs a bone and an audiophile needs a gear to rag on.   But I say we reserve true vitriol to things from Machina Dynamica, the bringer of http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1144976473.  Nothing like having a common enemy to bring about a united front!

[miklorsmith]

True, true.  'Tis to be human.

I ordered the Yamamoto A-08s.  Yes, it's a "chalkie" pick, but I find my tastes and observations to be very closely aligned with Srajan Ebaen's and his system is similar to mine.

I'm still working on the TacT, especially getting the thing properly calibrated.  It's quite a piece with a seemingly infinite flexibility, which makes optimization daunting.  I'm planning a pretty extensive review of the system as a whole once I get it configured properly.

Hint - it's pretty damn cool.

[-Richard-]

Hi miklorsmith,

I was extraordinarily interested in the Tact at one time...I did everything I could
to purchase one several years ago at a discount price that was offered to me by
Tact as a courtesy for visiting a Stereophile sponsored audio show in NY...

But the company changed hands at least once during my negotiations with them
and communication became increasingly difficult...

I am still interested in their purest approach...and of course they seem to want
to build into their integrated models a great deal of control over EQ as you point out...
one important direction for the future of audio resides here...

So I am very interested in your upcoming impressions...

Let us know how the Yamamoto sounds to you as well...

Warm Regards -Richard-

[Dmason]

Miklor

Q- What is a "chalkie" pick? Never ever heard of that phrase..

The Yamamoto represents the very best of high minded Japanophile thinking. It is simply a work of art. With 45 triodes attached. Even the output devices are suitable for framing. Please forward eye candy at the appropriate time, and again congrats. A properly combined Japanophile system will kill anything else.

TacT is for those whom lack the wit to employ sarcasm.

I agree with Richard about SE implementations; done right, they simply ALL sound terrific. The B'Head SEX amp, an under $400 kit, when properly groomed and fed, hangs side by side with the very best, on its own terms. Now we're into the 6EM7, another dissimilar triode in Class A. Roger has his prototype, and now I have mine. It has abit more juice, and still that lit from within vibe, endemic to ALL SE designs, whether the vaunted and fashionable DHT variants, or the very unfashionable pentodes, such as the 6L6 that even guitarists love to hate, they simply ALL sound fabulous, done right.

The Silver Iris represents that which is possible with heavy caliber coaxials on open baffles. A very sweet and easily achieved destination. No one has mentioned just how EASY the whole IRis thing is. That is one of its greatest assets. No one has listened to it with a serious pro audio compression driver instead of the inexpensive Eminence one, no one has tried it with ACTIVE crossovers, or with something like a 300 watt amp on the cone, and a 2 watt amp on the horn, no one has optimized it. Yet. It represents what is possible. ALot is possible there, folks. And yes, I think it bears mention that there are alot of 'kites on the wire," so to speak, people who are reading, and reacting to what they read. I personally would hate to see Darrell Hawthorne lose ONE sale as a result of the clearly ulterior motive sayers like JLM offer. Yes, he has an axe to grind with Darrel Hawthorne, the whole thing is so patently weird and sad,  that it should just go away and covet what little residual credibility there is left, lest this sordid tale be spilt all over these pages, for the entertainment of the audience.

As a fairly seasoned member of The Cult Of The Openly Baffled, I strongly recommend anyone curious to try the Iris, it is the quickest, bestest intro to OB that there is out there. And that is a pretty damn big selling point, because most people whom get their ears around OB, have a VERY difficult time returning to any and all the other loads out there. And Enjoy The Music.

[miklorsmith]

Chalkie is sports parlance for picking the favored team.  Nobody separates themselves going the path easily traveled.  I don't mind being shown the way.

[Dmason]

In that case, a very good chalkie choice. I have been haunted by the fact that they offer it as a kit. That would be a chalkie and "salubrious" choice of builds. Like building a sports car. Pix please.

[JLM]

Sorry that I didn't qualify that ONE negative statement (after two positive ones).  Yes, the still "fresh" Silver Iris drivers I heard were with a medicore source and the simplest/cheapest wiring (and among other amps, my fully modded Clari-T).  But my 30 years of listening suggest that the lack of resolution will not improve with break-in.  

Sorry if I didn't praise everything that the "in crowd" likes.  But false praise can be just be damaging to the consumer as false damnation to the vendor.  I thought that AC was a place to openly and freely share.  

It's dissappointing that comments like "Dean of Pedantics" and "manic, nasty crusade" come from adults in relation to a hobby.  Get a life guys.

Sorry Don for misintrepeting your post.

[Dmason]

"Get a life?"

This coming from someone who styles himself as an authority, a self styled Ombudsman, taking people to task.

"Get a shrink." Seasonal affective disorder is a very real thing in places like Michigan. Better yet, just go away.

[JoshK]

But I say we reserve true vitriol to things from Machina Dynamica, the bringer of http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1144976473.  Nothing like having a common enemy to bring about a united front!

I thought that was a joke.  This thing is a serious ad??

[miklorsmith]

Off-topic, but apparently so. . .

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1138572451&read&keyw&zzclever

[nodiak]

OCTAL PREAMP ALERT!!! I may have made a mistake but have chosen to hesitate and study octal pre's more , and experience my non octal MiniMax pre for a while. (I did grab a tubalizer tho, that could be very cool). This means there is a 3 channel Mapletree pre amp with very low hours that is available for a good price. I just want people interested to know that. It's not my place to say more ...but on the first page of this thread it was brought to my attention. I hope the seller says here that it is still available if so, and puts an add in Trading Post.

JLM, I just feel you took my comments a step or two beyond anything I inferred by attaching them to your judgement of the SI's. That's all. I just speak for myself and would want you to as well. I don't want to be considered connected to anyone elses opinions by mistake.
I post on the Hawthorne site about my experiences with the SI's. I'm no cheerleader. I've said there that the p2p xo I made -with essential good quality components- improves them to me. In fact to use the word you used i would say they are more resolving with it. I'm not sure if I sometimes talk about them elsewhere without mentioning the xo I use with them, I'll try to make sure I do. I actually try not to talk about them much because they are under some scrutiny being new, AND because I'm aware of everyones different likes and dislikes, AND because of the xo change. In effect we didn't hear exactly the same SI's, and not with the same gear.
I try to discuss the positives and negatives of the SI's on the Hawthorne site because I think doing so will help Darrel make any improvements he feels are important. Personally I would be interested in an 8-10" model, but I ain't got the $ to develop it.
I think the SI's are an easy triple for a first time at bat, and with xo replacement could be an in the park home run with the right equipment for certain compatible ears/senses. They are ONE OF the drivers I could see totally satisfying a $1000 or less budget when paired with DIY gear LIKE the Charlize amp, Monica dac, brand X/whatever cdp as transport, and maybe the tubalizer. And yes another $60-100 for replacing the stock xo would be well worth it. I think this would be ONE OF the smart persons systems who is wiser with their $ than I am. Good enough ?
 
Richard, thank you for the compliments. But of course I am fully human with a full pallete of emotions. In fact one of the reasons I am self employed, like most other self employed folks , is that in the long run I can't always compromise in a group situation (but I do know how to be diplomatic) - except when doing carpentry when all we were doing was following blueprints. I like being in my own corner of the sandbox most of the time.

The clock thing...go for it dude        
 
Don

[nodiak]

DMason is exactly on target about the supreme mallability of the SI's. I know some folks avoid them BECAUSE they are a 2 way, but to me that VERSATILITY is what they've got that others don't.
With the xo change I did I've tasted some of the possibilities with this coaxial. (btw, HGDave is working on another xo idea using a notch filter instead of a large value inductor on the woofer section. If successful this would allow a smaller value inductor and therefor far lower dcr, classey!).
I am very interested in trying different amps with the tweeter and woofer, and electronic xo/biamping as well. On and on go the possibilities with the SI coax!
Also you should check out Hawthorne site (if you haven't) for the different OB panels- but more importantly - the uboxes, and ubox with rear loaded horn that John of the Jungle is developing for SI's and B200's . Kick ass! (yes, Cartman said that).
 
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forum/

Much travelling to do in the diy world.

Don