Has Anyone Tried One of These?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1546 times.

gongos


Folsom

Has Anyone Tried One of These?
« Reply #1 on: 31 Mar 2006, 09:17 am »
It appears to be fairly legit but there is a concern or two.

The signal going through induces a magnetic field onto the winding. There is no power going through the other winding.... This means it, within reason, should not induce any thing back to the original. However because it is being induced upon, and there is no way out, perhaps it gets fed back into the first winding.....

Thoughts on this..... The increase in impedence may not be real impedence.... This may be just extra power dispursion through magnetic fields, a possible cycle between them which ultimatly should bleed off via going through the speaker at say half power, 1/4 power... Do think of this as being in nano-second terms though.

That would not be the result in the amplifier having an easier time working with out such low impedence.... The speaker to it would appear to be possibly taking more power, but this would not result in an easier time for the amplifier; the amplifier would still be doing the same work.

Now being more resistive as the magnetic lines of flux going between the windings would provide some resistance, some increased impedence. This would make the load on the amplifier easier.... However in order for this to work you can pretty much assume the signal from the primary is going to the secondary and back, the induction causeing the increased impedence. If there is a bit of magnetic induction coming back from the seconday this could mean a miniture signal, possibly delayed causing a small smear of the original signal....

How small would this smear be? Well it could be enough to cause a pleasing warmth in midbass and very slightly taming of highs, yet nothing to noticable on the bass. It could also be so small you do not even notice it. Depending on the winding there is the possibility also that any signal re-introduced could be so far out of the 0-20khz range that it would be negligable, as it would be so small and not reproducable by the speaker or even very carriable by the material all the way to the speaker. I honestly highly doubt the possibility of him considering having the secondaries act in this manner.

Would I use this product? Yeah it probably works well enough that I would if I need it.... The price? Now that I am not entirely sure about being the most legit. I believe there is a slightly sacrafice in sound but it may not be one you can notice.

How would I make this better? Why not have the secondary winding come out of the transofrmer... That way you can attach it to an AC plug on the ground, the U shaped one, not the blades. Why do this? I figure perhaps the induced bit of signal would bleed out through the ground as opposed to back into the primary.

Am I an expert on any of this? Hell no but I do know a few things about transformers and electricity.

Overall this is a practicle but not perfect product. The only real discussion is the price and why he did not go for the AC plug bleed off. I could be more than wrong about the AC plug, and the other stuff.

Quality of binding posts? As long as the binding posts are higher resistance it will not be an issue. You would actually be better off using any thing not gold plated, not copper, and hopefully worse than brass for conducting. That would insure as little as possible passing through them. The alternative would be some copper, silver rhoadium coated Cardas binding posts. That makes the zero impedence box appealing as it appears to use just that.

The speaker cables and RCA by the same dude? Now that might be questionable? Those make look a little bit like a gimic. The zero autotransofrmers are some thing I can understand, the speaker cables with no information given, and just a bunch of spastic reviews.......  I am not so sure about them. There is nothing given to really make me believe they are special in any way.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 10760
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Has Anyone Tried One of These?
« Reply #2 on: 31 Mar 2006, 11:15 am »
Search back about a year ago and you'll find one or more threads with reactions from the good folks here.  They do seem to work, but can be reproduced for much less.

woodsyi

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 6513
  • Always Look on the Bright Side of Life!
Has Anyone Tried One of These?
« Reply #3 on: 31 Mar 2006, 01:34 pm »
Bill Baker put those in an externally boxed crossover for me in his Bella SP/AV1s.  I recently finished cooking them for over 300 hrs and just started listening to them.  I had them put in so that I can run them with a typical EL34 PP amp with ~25 watt power.  I have only listen to them with my 100w tube amps running so far.  I do not hear any smear.  Bill has done an excellent job.  Coherence and clearness of details are strong points. I have been waiting for those darned V-caps to open up and I think they just started.  I will try them with my Sophia amp and Audio Mirror 40 watter (on loan from doug s.) to see if autoformer does it's job with these.

samplesj

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 463
Has Anyone Tried One of These?
« Reply #4 on: 31 Mar 2006, 03:02 pm »
Quote from: Destroyer of Smiles.
Why not have the secondary winding come out of the transofrmer...


There is NO secondary winding.  As the product name says this is an autotransformer with only 1 winding.

Quote from: Destroyer of Smiles.
That would not be the result in the amplifier having an easier time working with out such low impedence.... The speaker to it would appear to be possibly taking more power, but this would not result in an easier time for the amplifier; the amplifier would still be doing the same work.


I'm not sure that is accurately stated.  An 8ohm speaker compared to a 4ohm with a zero would be the safe work sure (all other aspects equal save ohm rating).  However that same 4ohm with and without are not the same work from the amp.  Without a autotransformer the 4ohm will pull twice the current so it definately works the amp harder.

On a normal amp a 4 ohm speaker will pull the same voltage as an 8 ohm speaker, but it will pull twice the amperage.  The product works by tranding the voltage down for more amperage.  The zero is going to make the voltage 1/2, but now you've got 2x the amperage as a result (ignoring losses for simplicity) so the amp sees this as pulling the same as a 8ohm instead of a 4ohm.

Notice his target audience is tube with their high voltages

Bill Baker

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4921
  • Musica Bella Audio- Custom Design and Manufacturi
    • Musica Bella Audio
Has Anyone Tried One of These?
« Reply #5 on: 31 Mar 2006, 03:40 pm »
I have done some experimenting with the ZEROs over the past several months. The speaker I have been using is the large Usher D2 horn system rated at 4 ohms. I recently had a few amps in that were not designed for or even like a 4 ohm load.

 On the inexpensive side, I have had a few Almarro 205 amps in for work. The old version was wired only for 8 ohms with the new design being switchable between 8 and 16 ohm. Running these on the D2s through the ZEROs at 2x increase did sound better than without. I did not take any measurements to verify or even justify my findings. I only used my ears.

 I did the same with a pair of Welborne Labs DRD 45 amps running through the D2's and ZEROs. The same sonic results were noticed.

 When running my Reference Jolida 801 (with 4 ohm taps) through the D2's with and without the ZERO's, I did not find that the ZERO's were needed.

 An easy test was with an older (cheap) Onkyo receiver and a pair of 4 ohm monitors. Normally these speakers would shut down the receiver within a half hour as it could not handle a 4 ohm load. With the ZEROs hooked up at x2, it ran all day without a glitch. Of course this thing actually cost less than the ZERO's but it proves that they do work.

 Are these a must have product? Depends on the application. I have a few other systems here where I did not find they made any difference. With a properly matched system, you would not need 'em but there are applications where they will allow products to work in harmony that  otherwise not be able to.

 Just my 2 cents.

Folsom

Has Anyone Tried One of These?
« Reply #6 on: 31 Mar 2006, 09:53 pm »
No what I ment was worded right, but it is not how they operate.

Secondary winding / iron core no difference, they could use a tap to drain, why not if it would work?

Oh well, like I said... they work, seem legit, just questionable on the price and the "binding post" comment. Also the cables may be a bit of a fib...

hmen

Has Anyone Tried One of These?
« Reply #7 on: 31 Mar 2006, 10:53 pm »
I've used them between my Atma-Sphere M60's and my VMPS RM2's. I found that they seemed to lower the noise floor.