Needing Advice...

rave959 · « **on:** 29 Mar 2006, 11:33 pm »

Hello fellow Audio Circle members, my name is Ian (NJ) and I've been a long time lurker here in the Circle. I finally became a member sometime ago and still stayed a lurker...

Anyway, I'm planning on upgrading my speakers and I thought that this would be the right place to post.

I currently have ACI jaguar 2000's and ProAc 2.95 (2.5 clone as you all know), and just thinking of purchasing Besl series 5 mtm or something around that price $1700. The room is medium-sized: approximately 22' by 11'. I currently have Odyssey stratos extremes amp, van alstine tslr7 pre, and sony scd-xa777es player. Thanks.

Rocket · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 11:41 pm »

Hi,

I think Jackman (AC member) has a pair of those speakers. Perhaps you can pm him regarding his opinion of the speaker, his previous speakers were ellis audio 1801.

Regards

Rod

rave959 · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 11:44 pm »

Thanks for the quick response.

Ian

drphoto · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 01:17 am »

rave,

did you build those ProAc clones yourself? I've always wanted to try that project. I'd think they'd be pretty good. I've always thought the real 2.5 was a very pleasant, musical speaker....though it does has some faults. The Jags are supposed to be excellent.

Are you using room treatments? A bad room can kill a good speaker IMHO.

When I heard the Sasson LTD at Marbles', I thought they were one of the best speakers I'd ever encountered. When Steve brought 'em to my place, they sounded only fair, and I'm convinced it's because of my nasty ass echo chamber room. My electronics aren't quite at the level of Marbles, but they don't suck.

Just a thought.

rave959 · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 04:39 am »

drphoto,

no, i didn't build it. I bought it from someone near my town. They do sound phenomenal. I did my research, and according to the site (Troels G.?) it is either as good or better. I love them, especially in vocals. The Jags are also good, bigger soundstage, clean, almost full range (40hz) and uncolored sound.

No, I don't have room treatments. I have a plant, chairs, cushioned couch, rug, and curtains. The room where I have my setup hardly echoes.

Any suggestions with speakers? I've heard alot about the Ellis 1801's and veracity ht1's/ht3's, but never actually heard them. There's so many great speakers here that inmates talk about, I wish somebody lived closer just so I could pay a visit and listen.

The most expensive speakers I've heard so far was the Sonus Faber Amati Homage and the Bang and Olufsen (16k a pair). They sounded good, but nothing special. Two different characteristics. The SF was warm and nearly full range, driven by mark levinson amp and lexicon pre. The B & O was full range and colorless, yet I said to myself: "16k for these?"

Gordy · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 04:56 am »

Quote from: rave959

There's so many great speakers here that inmates talk about, I wish somebody lived closer just so I could pay a visit and listen.

Hi Rave959

You're perfectly located to join up with all the other NY ravers! They meet once a month and are a great crew to get to know, an excellent way to experience a wide range of equipment and viewpoints too!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=62

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 05:04 am »

Quote from: Gordy

Quote from: rave959

There's so many great speakers here that inmates talk about, I wish somebody lived closer just so I could pay a visit and listen.

Hi Rave959

You're perfectly located to join up with all the other NY ravers! They meet once a month and are a great crew to get to know, an excellent way to experience a wide range of equipment and viewpoints too!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=62

Yes...check out the Rave's....and JoshK...he lives in Jersey City as well.

rave959 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 05:42 am »

Hello guys,

Damn, I had no clue! That's pretty awesome. I guess I will have to introduce myself first, then asked to be on the list.

Thanks for the suggestions. Has anybody heard the besl series5's? compared to its price peers? For some reason this particular model caught my attention. I thought I'd ask here before PM'ing people.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 05:48 am »

Quote from: rave959

Hello guys,

Damn, I had no clue! That's pretty awesome. I guess I will have to introduce myself first, then asked to be on the list.

Thanks for the suggestions. Has anybody heard the besl series5's? compared to its price peers? For some reason this particular model caught my attention. I thought I'd ask here before PM'ing people.

As Rocket/Rod had mentioned....the only one I can recall having the besl speakers is jackman. Not sure if he had posted a review...I know he posted photo's.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 05:53 am »

Here's the post on Jack's speakers.... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23444&highlight=speakers

mca · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 06:19 am »

Quote

I currently have ACI jaguar 2000's and ProAc 2.95

What is it your not getting out of your current speakers that makes you want to upgrade? I have been toying with the idea of trying out the ACI Panoramas myself.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 03:41 pm »

Quote from: rave959

Damn, I had no clue! That's pretty awesome. I guess I will have to introduce myself first, then asked to be on the list. .

Consider yourself "introduced"! And your screen name is ideal for our NY Audio Raves...

Send me a PM or email with your email address and I'll add you to the email list. Also, we're looking for a host for the April Rave, so if you're up for a dozen or two people descending on your house with gear and music in tow, raise your hand...

Al Garay · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 07:00 pm »

I have exchanged many emails with Jackman in the past about his journey with BESL's going from System 2 to the System 5. He absolutely loves them and is totally satisfied. Doesn't feel anything missing. You might want to email Jackman directly.

Phil Bamberg is an excellent speaker designer, a true perfectionist. And he has a new speaker builder (as of last year) that does excellent work. People don't realize that his System 5 with the subwoofers is right up there with the SL Orions and HT-3 in musical accuracy and enjoyment. BESL is just much cheaper. He is another good guy in audio.

Al

gonefishin · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 09:37 pm »

Quote from: rave959

I currently have ACI jaguar 2000's and ProAc 2.95 (2.5 clone as you all know), and just thinking of purchasing Besl series 5 mtm or something around that price $1700. The room is medium-sized: approximately 22' by 11 ...

Have you tried to locate any Besl or Ellis owners in your area? You may be surprised at how willing other enthusiast are to invite you over for an audition.

Try asking in the Besl and Ellis circles about nearby owners to yourself. Who knows...you may be surprised to find someone

With the above mentioned speakers in this thread...I'd recommend listening before buying. Besides...you've got time. Right

take care,

dan

rave959 · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 03:38 am »

Thanks for providing the link. I am a computer major, but I'm new to posting on forums, so bare with me (I guess this is weird nowadays). Man, I should have posted here a while ago. I was just reading all inmates' emails for a long time. The same people are here from the previous forums - harmonic discord and audio asylum.

I'm sorry for asking a lot of questions (curious), but here it goes. People seem to prefer the Seas excel drivers over scan-speak and others. I owned Tyler acoustics taylo monitors, which I thought were good, but too warm for my liking. They were the warmest speakers I had, but all the details were there. It just wasn't my cup of tea. Anyway, I also see people talk about the accuton drivers and how they are excellent, but I don't see people building, let alone talk about skaaning drivers? They are also up there with seas, ss rev's, and accutons. Has anybody heard this brand?

Ian

rave959 · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 03:45 am »

Gonefishin,

I haven't tried to locate any Besl or Ellis audio owners, but will do in the near future. the series5 mtm just went up $75....

Before I bought the Jags, I almost signed up for the Ellis, but wanted almost full range extension. I'm sure the Ellis is a very good speaker, but the wait time also made me go to ACI.

I also would love to listen before buying. Honestly, I've been buying audio gear 'unheard', and have been lucky to actually be happy for each and every purchase. Now with more (or much more...) money invested in this hobby, I will definitely listen first!

rave959 · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 03:56 am »

Phil,

Thank you for welcoming me. I live in a small apartment and these Fu*@%rs downstairs complain all the time with my music. I can never get my sound to make at least a little rattling noise to the china across the room! If I had a house, heck I'd volunteer right away to host!

Al,

Thanks for the info. I have been hearing great things about the series5 mtm's. I was just wondering if I can actually maximize its potential without the active crossover that PEB offers (not thinking about going active this time). Because in the site, supposedly going active takes the music to a higher level, I just don't know if the differences are really that subtle. Aren''t you an ex-owner of the Ellis? (correct me whenever you wish, of course).

MCA,

I am pretty satisfied with my system. Ya know, as an audiophile, you get this damn itch all the time that could only be satisfied with more gear or upgrading!

Which speakers do you currently have?

Al Garay · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 04:52 am »

Active crossovers are like lusting after a new Porche. They go faster and handle better but are not near as practical as a BMW M series sedan. The point being that a well design passive crossover can give you tremendous satisfaction. You don't hear may Jim Salk HT-3 owners lusting after the DEQX active model. That's because Dennis Murphy's passive crossover design is elegant, simple and works darn well. So, do Dennis' other designs. Historically speaking, Phil Bamberg was one of the mentors in speaker design in the Madisound forum.

I like that Phil with BESL provides a simple upgrade path. You can start with the more economical passive System 2 MTM and later use the same cabinet and upgrade to the System 5. If you wish to try active, you can keep the passive crossover and pay the nominal fee for the DCX2496 and take advantage of having Phil (Mr. Perfectionist) Bamberg spend hours with you making sure it is setup optimally to suit your room and taste.

Keep in mind that you have to plan to have a subwoofer to integrate with the System 2, 2.5 or 5. They are sealed monitors so they don't extend down to the 40Hz region like the Ellis 1801 which is ported. There are tradeoffs but don't follow the simple notion that ported is better than sealed or vice-versa. It all depends on the designer and the execution. With Phil or Dennis (Jim Salk and Dave Ellis), you have both.

Yes. I did have a Ellis 1801 and I do think about it occasionally. Had I had more room and money (at the time), I would have kept it. I had a lot of sentimental value and helped sell 4+ sets as people stopped by my place to hear them. For a simple 2-way, I was very happy with the 1801, AKSA amps and BentAudio passive. I'm now very happy with my primarily HT 5.1 system that does a good job with music. My wife made it very clear that she didn't have the patience to wait for me to build my dream active system. It was getting very complex. Having a simple system became very attractive.

You live in a small apartment, have you thought about building a killer headphone system and a simple stereo system?

Oh and by the way, if your heart is set on going active, then go for it. The UcD amps are a great option. You need to audition the BESL's, Jim's HT-3 and SL Orion's.

rave959 · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 11:09 pm »

Yeah, I will audition first before buying. I'm sure they're all great, I just have to pick mainly because of preference as far as speaker sound characteristics, and of course music type.

ian