rigid foam question

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nodiak

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rigid foam question
« on: 28 Mar 2006, 07:12 pm »
Does anyone know if this is ~ same as OC 700 series? I can have all I can use for free, from a friend. It is 3" thick, foil faced - I would remove the foil as needed. I will use another material if this isn't good for corner bass traps. I will likely get 2 traps done today or tomorrow as a test, so will eventually answer my own question. But can anyone tell from the link? Unfortunately no acoustic properties listed.

Johns Manville AP Foil Faced Sheathing.

http://www.jm.com/insulation/building_insulation/products/bid0022_ap_foil-faced.pdf

Thanks, Don

Red Dragon Audio

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rigid foam question
« Reply #1 on: 28 Mar 2006, 07:45 pm »
They don't declare any NTSC ratings and I couldn't find any density ratings either.

Since you get it for free it's certainly worth experimenting with.

You should call the manufacturer to find out if they have any experience with this material's acoustic properties. At least they could tell what the material density is.

The one thing I noted is that it is a closed cell foam...Certain closed cell foams aren't the best option for acoustic purposes.

But again - it's free so you should definitely try it out.

Good luck! :D

bpape

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rigid foam question
« Reply #2 on: 29 Mar 2006, 02:23 pm »
In the very first paragraph of that product, they state that it is a closed-cell foam.  Closed cell foams are not appropriate for acoustical treatments.  If you're going to use foam, you need an open-cell type.

nodiak

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rigid foam question
« Reply #3 on: 29 Mar 2006, 03:36 pm »
Thanks for the information. Too bad for me. Looks like it's going to take $.
Don

BrunoB

rigid foam question
« Reply #4 on: 30 Mar 2006, 11:54 am »
Quote from: bpape
In the very first paragraph of that product, they state that it is a closed-cell foam.  Closed cell foams are not appropriate for acoustical treatments.  If you're going to use foam, you need an open-cell type.


Close cells foam are probably not able to adsorb medium and high frequencies because soundwaves cannot penetrate into the cells. For low frequencies, they might  adsorb sound by a membrane effect. Since it's free, you could  nevertheless try your panels  for bass adsorption.

Bruno

Christof

rigid foam question
« Reply #5 on: 30 Mar 2006, 01:13 pm »
Free 3" R board, insulate something with it.  I'm about to dump $thousands$ on the same thing for my loft.  Trade you an Accuphase for it :wink:

bpape

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rigid foam question
« Reply #6 on: 30 Mar 2006, 03:43 pm »
Hey, it's free - give it a shot.

However, for anything to act like a proper membrane absorber, you need:

1.  A cavity behind it - preferably sealed.
2.  A membrane with sufficient mass to resonate at the frequencies desired.  Bass frequencies require relatively high mass.  

For instance, a sealed membrane absorber that is tuned to about 110Hz or so (give or take for construction details, voids, etc.) requires a 3.5" cavity behind it and 1/4" plywood face.  I would suspect that you would need probably 4-6" of that foam to get the same mass as the plywood.

If you're talking about something similar to an FRK/FSK faced fiberglass, then it might work, a little bit - but not down very deep.  Check out the specs for 1"  FRK 703
0.18 0.75 0.58 0.72 0.62 0.35

Now 1" Plain 703
0.17 0.86 1.14 1.07 1.02 0.98 1.00

Look where you gained absorbtion - at 125Hz - but not much - and this is with something behind it that will actually give a little bit - unlike the foam.  If you figure the foam will do almost nothing above 150Hz and is not dense enough to act as a membrane at bass frequencies but not porous enough to act as a pure veloctiy absorber, I'm not really seeing much point.

JohninCR

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rigid foam question
« Reply #7 on: 2 Apr 2006, 10:56 pm »
Something everyone seems to overlook regarding panel traps is that they are very easy to tune lower by adding some mass in the middle, like tuning a passive radiator on a speaker.  This material sounds like it is much more compliant than plywood.  That means it would be much easier to stimulate its resonant frequency (similar to higher Qms for a driver).  I believe this may make an excellent material for the front panel for your corner panel traps.  You'll just need to play with the added center mass to get the low tuning you want, since I doubt anyone has the correct math to apply without the actual Q.

nodiak

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rigid foam question
« Reply #8 on: 4 Apr 2006, 04:59 am »
hmmm... as a type of resonant panel bass trap. Could be. Possibly some what self damping, possibly. Thinking in terms of tuning it like a passive radiator is a good idea. Thanks John. May need to use some fiberglass to help damp panel resonance. Reading and trial and error...
I had thought of sealing it across a corner and tuning it with vent.
Well there are a few sheets left. Other friends grabbed a lot of it today for insulation.
Don