HDMI question

fiveoclockfriday · « **on:** 27 Mar 2006, 08:44 pm »

Home video experts...I have a question for you. I have a tv that supports 1080i , and has an HDMI input.
I have a fairly old DVD player that doesn't even support progressive scan, and has been skipping/working poorly the past couple months, leading me to believe it's time to replace.
Now, the skeptic in me is still hesitant about upsampling, as it's impossible to add detail to a finite amount of pixels from the source, but whether I use upsampling or not, the HDMI connection should give me the best video connection on a new DVD player. (I am not at all interested in Blu Ray or HD DVD, so don't worry/suggest). My question is can I use an HDMI cable from the DVD player to the tv, and also use the RCA jacks to run stereo audio to a preamp (or hopefully DAC soon)? I use my stereo system for audio when I watch movies, but I might use the new DVD player as my source for CD as well. The TV has monitor out RCA jacks, which I am fine using for movie audio, but I don't want to have to turn the tv on every time I want to listen to a cd (obviously). Anyone tried this, or can do a quick experiment for me? Thanks. If it's relevant, I'd be looking at players in the sub $300 range, nothing very high end.

fiveoclockfriday · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 02:36 pm »

Anybody ? (bump)

ted_b · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 03:03 pm »

Yes, of course, DVD players with HDMI still have rca analog outs and coax/optical digital outs. The HDMI settings in the menu will allow you to turn on HDMI audio or not. In the case of HDMI 1.1 you can use HDMI to carry 5.1 DVD-Audio (or not). I use HDMI for video only.

fiveoclockfriday · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 04:19 pm »

Thanks, Ted; I know it seems obvious, but nobody at my work or the clueless salespeople at Best Buy could give me a definitive answer.

BobC · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 04:51 pm »

It's my understanding that HDMI 1.3 is required to transmit multi channel audio, correct? And 1.3 code is not finalized yet, correct?

Regardless, I use component video out and digital audio out to my pre-pro. Also use the analog RCA outs also to the pre-pro for CD playback. Can set the pre-pro to select different inputs and assign processing.

elcaptain88 · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 05:08 pm »

Great question, one I might have asked in a week or so as I start to put together an updated AV system.

Is the 'upconversion' feature with certain DVD players only available on HD ready sets, and is it only generally available when using the HDMI connection (i.e. is upconversion also available w/ component video connections)?

fiveoclockfriday · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 05:32 pm »

As far as the upconversion goes, I can't imagine it would work...or if it did why you would want it on a non HD set.

Most of the players only upconvert via HDMI or DVI, but there was at least one (not sure the model) that would do some upconversion via component out. It was buzzed about on video forums not long ago.

bubba966 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 01:07 am »

The upconversion on the OPPO DVD player (for $200) works rather well. In fact I can't believe the picture that such a low $ puts out. If you have DVI or HDMI inputs on your display that's easily the DVD player to get.

The upconversion if only going to be able to be used on HD capable displays.

There was a Samsung model player that upconverted via the component video outs, but they "fixed" it so it no longer does that if I recall right.

And if you're running your DVD's on an HD set the set is most likely doing an upconversion for you as most all of them upconvert the incoming signal to 1080i. But it can be a lot better to do the upconversion in the DVD player before the signal is converted to analog and sent to the display.

If my display had an HDMI/DVI input I'd probably sell my Pioneer DV-AX10, get an OPPO to replace it, and have Bolder Cables perform video & digital mods to it to improve the performance of it. But my Loewe doesn't have a digital video input, so I'll have to stick with my AX10...

ted_b · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 02:46 am »

Quote from: BobC

It's my understanding that HDMI 1.3 is required to transmit multi channel audio, correct? And 1.3 code is not finalized yet, correct?

Regardless, I use component video out and digital audio out to my pre-pro. Also use the analog RCA outs also to the pre-pro for CD playback. Can set the pre-pro to select different inputs and assign processing.

Nope, not correct. As I stated in my post above (with experience, I have HDMI 1.1!; I'm not making this up) the current HDMI 1.1 spec allows for multichannel DVD-Audio to be transmitted along to a HDMI 1.1 spec'd receiver/pre-pro. (I can do it today, but like the analog outs better). For one-bit DSD support (SACD) the HDMI 1.2 level is required; however, that level is a hardware swap and no mfger's are willing to do this to simply add native SACD support on HDMI. They are all waiting for HDMI 1.3 spec, which is not ready and won't be until early 2007. It adds support for the decoded HD formats (DTS-HD, True-Dolby). It also will be a board swap.

klh · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 04:29 pm »

Ted,

Will HDMI 1.3 also carry a 1080p video signal? I finally got the OK from the misses to get a front projector and screen, but I'm a little hesitant to jump right now given the changes that will occur within the upcoming year. I don't want to spend a couple grand on a PJ that will only be a 2 year stepping stone... my TVs have typically lasted much longer and my frugal upbringing is fighting this one quite a bit.

ted_b · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 04:41 pm »

Quote from: klh

Ted,

Will HDMI 1.3 also carry a 1080p video signal? I finally got the OK from the misses to get a front projector and screen, but I'm a little hesitant to jump right now given the changes that will occur within the upcoming year. I don't want to spend a couple grand on a PJ that will only be a 2 year stepping stone... my TVs have typically lasted much longer and my frugal upbringing is fighting this one quite a bit.

HDMI today will carry 1080p. But I agree; it's always tough to make a digital electronics decision, given the evolution rate, but right now it's even tougher. According to the real watchers out in the market (AVS Forum is a great source) there are new DLP and LCD technologies that are 3 yrs away from consumer level that will revolutionize digital pj's. If you can either hold out or get a $2k or less pj and hope to sell it in 3-4 yrs (Panny 900u is great safe choice).

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 05:05 pm »

Ted's advice is very sound.

I just bought a couple of the Panny pj's to hold me over for the next few years while all the new technology comes streaming in. I can tell you the Panny is pretty darn close to my Marantz VP-12S1 at a fraction of the price!

This way I can enjoy things now and not watch it depreciate a huge amount like my Marantz VP-12S1 did over the previous four years (from $14k to around $2.5k - OUCH!!).

George

ted_b · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 05:53 pm »

George,
Thanks for the support.

A COUPLE of Panny PJ's?? What, so the butler and maid have to share one in that new home of yours?

No, I know....the one upstairs will be programmed for the BoSox games....maybe even one Tivo'd game in a demo loop......but the real one downstairs will have them Yankees on it, right?

John Ashman · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 06:55 pm »

Right now, you can get a great 720p DLP for ~$2500-$3000, but the next step up would cost $10K. So, it *is* a great time to buy a PJ. You buy one for $2K-$3K that does 720 with HDMI and then wait for the next generation (or later) that will have 1080p, possibly 3-chip and/or LED driven for as little as $5K in 3 years or so. If you wait for PJs to settle down, you'll never get one. But the fact that 720P DLP has dropped so low makes it probably the best time to buy a PJ in the last three or four years.

klh · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 08:14 pm »

Interesting points of view.

I have been looking at AVS... and what I've gathered is it is advisable to at least wait for the 2nd gen players to be released (if you have the patience).

It seems as though the audio output from the first gen players will not include 8 (7.1) discrete hi-fidelity channels. I've also gathered the disks will not be required to be coded for 8 discrete channels (but it is possible). Not only that, but production companies will not likely code movies previously released on DVD with 8 discrete channels (most likely because of added cost). New releases have more potential but even still, this all seems quite disappointing.

I think it will take at least three years for HD DVD and Blu Ray to sort themselves out, both in the format war, but also what audio/video signals they will decode and pass through. I think it will eventually get to 8 discrete hi-fedility channels, but it will take quite a while. Once that is sorted out, then AVRs and pre-pros that are able to decode 8 discrete hi-fidelity channels will have to be released.

It will take a long time for all of this to happen... especially for it to be released in moderately priced equipment.

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 08:17 pm »

Quote from: ted_b

George,
Thanks for the support.

A COUPLE of Panny PJ's?? What, so the butler and maid have to share one in that new home of yours?

No, I know....the one upstairs will be programmed for the BoSox games....maybe even one Tivo'd game in a demo loop......but the real one downstairs will have them Yankees on it, right?

The butler and the maid don't mind sharing in the master suite...

Funny, none of pj's or plasma seem to be able to play a Red Sox game...I'll have to call DTV and see if that can be changed - NOT!!!

I actually don't have the HT up and running yet - using the pj's in the master suite and living room for now. Might be a few months before I get the time to work on the HT as I need to put up a wall and get some lines run.

George

John Ashman · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Apr 2006, 09:05 pm »

Now that I have an Dish 622 receiver, I may *never* buy an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. I don't much see the point when I have one machine that gets me pretty much everything I want. I see need to rush out. Remember, DVD was the best picture you could get eight years ago. But HD/BD won't be much better than HD for most people. I really think these companies think they're going to see a repeat of DVD popularity and I think they're sorely mistaken.

Ears · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Apr 2006, 05:25 pm »

The current version of hdmi will do 1080p...but with the upcoming formats, you will need hdmi 1.3....or 2.0 as its most likely going to end up being called.
This will do 1080p from a Blue Ray player , as well as lossless DTS-HD, DD TRU HD, and Sonys linear uncompressed multi channel audio.

The catch is that the receivers/pre/pros won't be out until fall to 07, and the current hi res players do not have hdmi 1.3 or 2.0 as it will be called.

The first players announced are the PS3 and Panasonic Blu Ray player in September.
Panasonic also mentioned a new fully capable for lossless audio receiver at the same time, possibly making it the first.

levesque · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 06:48 pm »

HDMI 1.1 can do 1080p60. I'm using a 1080p projector (Sony Ruby) with the Anthem Statement D2 at 1080p60 without any problems right now.

Also. HDMI 1.1 does support multichannel LPCM, and up to 8 channels of 96/24 (or 2 channels of 192/24 stereo) and is then fully ready for the upcoming new players and formats. It's more a bandwidth problem then a number of channels or format problem.

I was able to try both a HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players with my Anthem D2 and everything was working fine. If the player can read the disc, decode it, and send it as PCM, the receiving end doesn't care what it started out as.

Ears · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 07:18 pm »

Quote from: levesque

HDMI 1.1 can do 1080p60. I'm using a 1080p projector (Sony Ruby) with the Anthem Statement D2 at 1080p60 without any problems right now.

Also. HDMI 1.1 does support multichannel LPCM, and up to 8 channels of 96/24 (or 2 channels of 192/24 stereo) and is then fully ready for the upcoming new players and formats. It's more a bandwidth problem then a number of channels or format problem.

I was able to try both a HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players with my Anthem D2 and everything was working fine. If the player ...

Yes I said the current hdmi will do 1080p just like my 9 month old Optoma h-78 dc3 that accepts 1080p via hdmi...even though its only a 720p pj.

HDMI 1.1 will not do multi channel lossless audio without downressing it from everything I have read....and seeing how nobody has any multi channel lossless audio tracks in any way, shape or form yet on an actual hd dvd or Blu Ray disc.....I will stay with this info as valid until somone does

.
If you do...please at least p.m. me and let me know as you would be the first I have heard of that had actual multi channel lossless audio on any actual movie disc.

Leveque...how do the two formats look so far?