Auditioning the PMC BB5 or MB2

The Bogg · « **on:** 25 Mar 2006, 12:03 am »

Hi all,

I've read some of the recent posts about people's difficulties auditioning the higher priced pieces or specialty pieces like the Bryston BP26. I'm interested in the PMC MB2 and BB5...is there any place to hear the BB5 around Toronto or even Ontario? I heard the MB2s in Vancouver and even though the room and music were unfamiliar there were aspects of them I really liked. I recently heard a pair of MB2/XBD speakers but I didn't buy them because the height of the speakers made the image height too high for my liking. I know that you could put the XBD part beside the MB2 but cosmetically the Tower look rules!

I currently own ATC 50s and will either move up in the line or have a serious look at the PMCs. So far, I think the ATC tweeter is superior. The bass of the MB2s is really nice. Haven't heard the larger ATCs yet. Anyone interested in hearing my opinion on the ATCs and PMCs (because I've heard them) just ask.

James, thank you for being available to answer questions on this forum...it's unique as far as I know. Is there a "demo room" in Peterborough (Bryston HQ) to hear something like the BB5s?

At that high price point I will not buy a speaker without hearing it. The problem with many of the hifi stores is that even though they carry some decent speakers such as the PMC IB1s, B&W 802Ds etc... usually the room acoustics are mediocre. I've yet to hear a great demo of almost any speaker including the really expensive ones at some Toronto stores.
I plan on visiting a few well known stores in the US to audition some of the bigger speakers I'm interested in but if all else fails I'll just go with the larger ATCs because I really like their basic sound.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth about the current state of the audiophile art. Like many others, I'm disappointed in the hifi stores just being order-takers who make a phone call and order you a product you decided to buy on your own. That pretty well includes most of the stuff I buy. I have no qualms about buying on the internet or haggling aggressively. There are some stores that give great service and spend time with me. I do buy from them and will continue to do so. I hope you all will continue to support the good dealers that do provide the type of service that we expect, otherwise we know what will happen to them...

Cheers,
The Bogg

James Tanner · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Mar 2006, 12:15 pm »

Hi Bogg,

No I am sorry but I do not know of any dealers in the Toronto area with BB5 or MB2's. As you say getting dealers to carry speakers in this price range is difficult.

I have IB2's at home if that is of any help.

james

The Bogg · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Mar 2006, 02:27 pm »

James,
Is there any place in North America that you know of where I could audition the BB5s?
I really liked the bass of the MB2s and figure the BB5s will be more of the same. Have you heard the BB5s?
The Bogg

Thunder · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Mar 2006, 04:45 pm »

Quote from: The Bogg

James,
Is there any place in North America that you know of where I could audition the BB5s?
I really liked the bass of the MB2s and figure the BB5s will be more of the same. Have you heard the BB5s?
The Bogg

I know where you can audition MB2/XBD stack in Toronto area - sent you a PM

James Tanner · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Mar 2006, 11:51 pm »

Quote from: The Bogg

James,
Is there any place in North America that you know of where I could audition the BB5s?
I really liked the bass of the MB2s and figure the BB5s will be more of the same. Have you heard the BB5s?
The Bogg

Yes I had a pair of BB5 Active single box units in my room up until about a year ago. I have had the MB2 Actives the MB2/XBD Passive and Active and the AML's over the past 2 years in my room.

james

The Bogg · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 03:53 am »

James,

Do the BB5s sound like a bigger version of the MB2s or do they have a different type of sound?

I noticed that the tweeters are different in the active MB2s/BB5s from the passive ones...why is that? Are the tweeters in the actives more "revealing", more powerful or just fancier looking!?

I assume you had the BB5s in the same room you now have the IB2s in...did they work well in that size room or would they require a bigger one to work best?

thanks,
The Bogg

The Bogg · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 03:56 am »

Hi Thunder,

thanks for the PM, I sent you one back.

Anyone considering the MB2/XBD should have a listen to the pair you mentioned as they have a really nice finish on them and sound pretty good to boot. They're just now what I'm looking for due to the reasons I mentioned before.

The Bogg

James Tanner · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 04:42 pm »

Quote from: The Bogg

James,

Do the BB5s sound like a bigger version of the MB2s or do they have a different type of sound?

I noticed that the tweeters are different in the active MB2s/BB5s from the passive ones...why is that? Are the tweeters in the actives more "revealing", more powerful or just fancier looking!?

I assume you had the BB5s in the same room you now have the IB2s in...did they work well in that size room or would they require a bigger one to work best?

thanks,
The Bogg

Hi Bogg,

No I have not had BB5's in my new room only IB2's and MB2's.
Yesthe BB5 sounds like a bigger version of the MB2 but there are differences. The BB5 goes lower and has more sound pressure level capability than the MB2 but the smaller baffel on the MB2 allows for better soundstaging in a smaller room.

The Active tweeter is bigger ( 1.25 inches rather than 1 inch) for more power handling.

james

xsparky · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 03:41 am »

James,
When you say the smaller baffel on the MB2 allows for better soundstaging in a smaller room,what room sizes,and how far away should you be?

James Tanner · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 12:30 pm »

Quote from: xsparky

James,
When you say the smaller baffel on the MB2 allows for better soundstaging in a smaller room,what room sizes,and how far away should you be?

I would say in my experience you need to be about 4 meters from the BB5's (room size minimum 16x 23 feet) and 3 meters from the MB2's (12 x 18 feet).

james

Alfalfa · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 04:07 pm »

Interesting topic and data James; what kind of room and distance figures would you reccommend in general for IB2'S?

James Tanner · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: Alfalfa

Interesting topic and data James; what kind of room and distance figures would you reccommend in general for IB2'S?

Hi,

My room is 16 x 23 feet and I find the IB2 works really well. I have used MB2's in the room and have had good results with them as well.

The IB2 has an even smaller baffle than the MB2 of course so again the distance from the speaker and the room size is less of an issue than with the MB.

The smallest room I have used IB2's in was 12x17 and I was listening on the long wall. The IB2 in my opionion is the worlds smallest full-range 3-driver point-source so as long as your about 2 Meters away your in good shape.

james

jethro · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 07:31 pm »

James:

I have a 13.5' x 18.5" room with my IB1's on the long wall. Would this room be too small for the MB-2 ?

James Tanner · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: jethro

James:

I have a 13.5' x 18.5" room with my IB1's on the long wall. Would this room be too small for the MB-2 ?

Hi Jethro,

It is really hard to say because each room reacts very differently in the bass area because of standing waves. Plus the bigger the speaker the further back you have to be to "integate" the drivers to approximate a "point source". Also the size of the baffle greatly influences the sounstage.

I find that you can generally use larger Transmission line type speakers than you would assume in a specific room because the transmission line loads the room much differently than a ported system does.

I had a pair of BB5 Actives in my first room about 10 years ago which was the 12x17 I mentioned. I listened on the long wall so you were only about 8 feet from the speakers. People would walk in and say - "you have got to be kidding - this can not possibly work" -- know what? -- it was MAGIC. I still miss that room even today.

james

jethro · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Apr 2006, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner

Hi Jethro,

I had a pair of BB5 Actives in my first room about 10 years ago which was the 12x17 I mentioned. I listened on the long wall so you were only about 8 feet from the speakers. People would walk in and say - "you have got to be kidding - this can not possibly work" -- know what? -- it was MAGIC. I still miss that room even today.

I'm imagining listening to AC/DC on that setup with my hair blowing backwards and a s**t-eating grin on my face.

Alfalfa · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 01:45 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner

Hi,

My room is 16 x 23 feet and I find the IB2 works really well. I have used MB2's in the room and have had good results with them as well.

The IB2 has an even smaller baffle than the MB2 of course so again the distance from the speaker and the room size is less of an issue than with the MB.

The smallest room I have used IB2's in was 12x17 and I was listening on the long wall. The IB2 in my opionion is the worlds smallest full-range 3-driver point-source so as long as your about 2 Meters away your in good shape.

james

James,
Is that 2 meters distance minimum or about optimum? I'm 2,5 meters away at this moment and find this quite close compared to earliers loudspeakers I've owned (not that I'm complaining, it's needs some getting used to.

My room is 15 x 17 x 12 feet (it's identical neigbouring room can be 'partnered' to the listening room by opening slide doors (creating a central 5 x 7 feet opening behind the listening position to the adjecent room).

James Tanner · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 02:08 pm »

Quote from: Alfalfa

James,
Is that 2 meters distance minimum or about optimum? I'm 2,5 meters away at this moment and find this quite close compared to earliers loudspeakers I've owned (not that I'm complaining, it's needs some getting used to.

My room is 15 x 17 x 12 feet (it's identical neigbouring room can be 'partnered' to the listening room by opening slide doors (creating a central 5 x 7 feet opening behind the listening position to the adjecent room).

Hi Alfalfa,

The 2-Meters is about minimum because you want the 3 drivers to integrate well enough to approximate a point source. Also the phase angle tilts down at about 10 degrees from the mid range so positioning the midrange slightly above ear level (stands) helps if your really close.

The other factor to consider is early reflections around the speaker. Try and have any hard reflective surfaces at least 3 feet away from the front and sides of the speaker.

One more set-up tip - have the axis of the speakers meet about 1 foot behind your head. In other words have the right speaker point over your right shoulder and the left speaker over your left shoulder so if you drew a straight line from each speaker the line would cross 1 foot behind your head in the listening position.

Hope this helps.

james

Alfalfa · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 04:15 pm »

Xcuse me for asking again; but is that crossing the straight line firing from the speaker units, or the inside 'walls' of the speakers?

Also, I must be getting higher stands than the dedicated PMC ones, or get another listening chair (Bed?). My ears are at 1 meter, this is acctually about 8 cm higher than the centre of the midrange!

WHen I'm 'lying' in my lchair I notice voices get a bit 'bigger' in the sound mix, a welcome treat with most music I play (al lot of extreme metal where voices are squeezed between guitars!

Is there any advantage in getting the speakers on higher stands (bass floor reflections?).

James Tanner · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 04:19 pm »

Quote from: Alfalfa

Xcuse me for asking again; but is that crossing the straight line firing from the speaker units, or the inside 'walls' of the speakers?

Also, I must be getting higher stands than the dedicated PMC ones, or get another listening chair (Bed?). My ears are at 1 meter, this is acctually about 8 cm higher than the centre of the midrange!

WHen I'm 'lying' in my lchair I notice voices get a bit 'bigger' in the sound mix, a welcome treat with most music I play (al lot of extreme metal where voices are squee ...

Straight line from the mid.

james

ShinOBIWAN · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Apr 2006, 05:47 pm »

FAO: The Bogg

Could you please post your subjective opinions on the ATC 50's please. Also do they feature the new ATC dome mid with the updated waveguide?

Thanks