Peter Aczel and The Audio Critic -> where the problems ar

skrivis · « **on:** 24 Mar 2006, 11:31 pm »

I only agree with Peter so far. I've heard differences with amps and preamps, even when the test was blind. But, he does make one good point in a recent editorial.

All of the things that the typical audiophile worries about: preamps, amps, DACs, CD players, SACD, wires, tubes, and on and on... pale to insignificance when compared to speakers.

The difference between a $100 amplifier and a $100,000 amplifier is small when you compare it to the difference between two speaker systems. Hell, sometimes the difference between two pairs of the same model if quality control isn't the greatest!

Peter managed to completely ignore the listening room in his editorial, so I guess his listening room is perfect.

Still, we're talking about the same end of things. The electrical to mechanical to acoustic process. The large flaws are here and they almost certainly swamp the difference between electronic components like amplifiers.

Spend your money on everything after the speaker cables.

Do I really believe that amplifiers sound the same? No, I think there are differences and I've heard them.

But I have noticed that nobody has problems telling the difference between 2 speakers systems in a DBT. They may have a problem telling the difference between two amps, but not speakers.

Speakers have more wrong with them than electronics at this point in time. So I think the average audiophile should spend more time and effort where it's called for - beyond the speaker cables.

Oh yes, the vinyl end of things has plenty of problems too, but we can avoid those by using CD.

warnerwh · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Mar 2006, 02:50 am »

Speakers and listening room are the major priorities. The electronics will also have a significant affect on the sound that certainly can't be ignored but the most money should probably be spent on speakers. You can always start out with lower end electronics with expensive(to your budget) speakers and still have better sound imo than buying expensive electronics and inexpensive speakers.

The room acoustics need as much attention as you can give them. I've been working with mine for some time now and keep learning. Even though it's a very good acoustical environment I have doesn't mean I can't tweak it for the better, or sometimes worse, but all the while learning. It's not as glamorous as a new amp or whatever but certainly makes a significant change in the sound.

kfr01 · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Mar 2006, 04:48 am »

Quote from: skrivis

All of the things that the typical audiophile worries about: preamps, amps, DACs, CD players, SACD, wires, tubes, and on and on... pale to insignificance when compared to speakers.

I agree, 100%.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Mar 2006, 06:07 am »

AMEN to that. I would add that the next biggest variable BY FAR is the room.

Have you ever heard a really good system outside, far from reflecting surfaces?
I have, once only, and to my amazement there was crystal clear image placement right down to bass frequencies. This was 1977, so it was vinyl as a source.

I have never since believed the notion that bass might as well be mono below 100Hz. In a typical (bad) room, maybe.

bpape · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 12:38 pm »

Just keep it in perspective.

In most cases, I'd take a $1k pair of speakers driven by a $1k integrated/amp/pre over a $1900 pair of speakers driven by a $100 integrated.

Dollar for dollar you still need parts that work well together. I mean really, if you tried to drive the old Infinity IRS, or Wilson WAMMs with a $100 receiver - bzzzzzt. Thanks for playing. The speakers are still some of the best but you'll get bupkis from them this way.

Tweaker · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 01:12 pm »

Garbage in, garbage out.

rbrb · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 02:27 pm »

Quote from: Tweaker

Garbage in, garbage out.

Start at the source always.

Dr. Krull · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 04:21 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

Peter managed to completely ignore the listening room in his editorial, so I guess his listening room is perfect.

That's because he owns Linkwitz Orions. As I understand it, one of the design goals of the Orion was to minimize speaker/room interactions.

-Krull

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 05:21 pm »

I decided to write the article linked below not only as a response to what was going on in the Audioholics Forums but as a response to the Audio Critic. They did this test back in the 90's and they may still do it today. I have made every effort to make this as simple as possible in the hopes that more people could understand it.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/HighCurrentAmps.php
d.b.
P.S.
"That's because he owns Linkwitz Orions. As I understand it, one of the design goals of the Orion was to minimize speaker/room interactions. "
I like the emoticon after that quote

warnerwh · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 12:45 am »

Great article Dan! Appreciate information like this. I know that the rail fuses also have something to do with the ability of an amp to deliver current. These fuse's values are typically in the one digit range.

Is your other article getting near completion? Thanks