[hanonymus]

Not too long ago I decided to include a BP25/26 DA in my system. I live in New Jersey, so I printed out the list of dealers found on Bryston’s own website and started “shopping.” Because I wanted to demo (listen to) the product before buying, (and because I like visiting audio stores anyway) I thought I’d just walk in at the dealer’s.

First up: Audio Nexus. The dealer’s response: they do not carry DA converters “because nowadays nobody uses them anymore,” and “DACs are a bad idea, anyway.” Plus, they don’t stock it because it’s expensive, and besides they are thinking of dropping the line altogether.

Next on the list: Home Theater Shops. At the listed address I found a computer shop. Its owner told me that there used to be an audio/video store, but it went out of business 5 or 6 years ago (!)

Moving on: Avalon Audio Video. The listed address does not exist. I asked around and someone from a nearby shop called the owner (it’s a very small town). I was told that a) this is a home-based business, no walk-ins; b) they have only a couple of amps left in stock, (no preamps) and if I wanted to demo a unit I should come back in a few weeks and see if it was available.

I was hoping that I’ll have more luck with 6th Ave. Electronics, being a large retailer and all. Not so. The salesmen did not know what Bryston was; the store manager remembered “that British company,” but they didn’t stock any (not in any store, not in the warehouse). I was given a card to call back in a few weeks. Heh…

After a few hundred miles of driving around I was getting tired of not finding what I was looking for. So for the last 2 dealers I decided to inquire by phone.

Cross Roads Audio Video did not have any units in stock; nor did they know if and when they were going to.

The only dealer who DID have it in stock was Audio Connection. They were also very professional (talked about matching the unit with the other components, etc.) However… their asking price was *above* list price.


I decided to write this after seeing the thread about the warranty and the dealers, where Mr. Tanner was questioning the commitment of certain customers who knowingly buy from gray marketers. Well, if what I did shows no commitment, then I don’t know what does. As a former Bryston owner, (3B-SST) I remained determined to keep looking, because I had high expectations. Good sound and reliability are powerful incentives. However, there is a limit to what a customer will take. The thing is, we would probably buy from authorized dealers - *if they let us.* All we want is a good product at a good price. And, if possible, to try before we buy. I live in one of the most densely populated areas in the US (an on Earth, come to think of it,) in one of the biggest markets. If I had to go through all this, (and with these results!) looking for a piece of audio gear, what chance do others have?

   Anyway, I thought Bryston might want to know what is going on “in the trenches,” as they like to put it. Well, here you go. This is how the “authorized dealers” work. In New Jersey, at least.

[Phil A]

I can certainly relate to your experiences.  I bought my 14BSST and 6BSST used about 2 yrs. ago for that reason.  The closest Bryston dealer (to me) carries so few pieces I could not get a decent audition of the products.  Buying used at fair prices meant if I did not like it for some reason, I could always sell it and keep looking for something else and not be out lots of money.  The point of having dealers should be to have some who stock and set-up the product so someone can make an informed decision.  I know my local dealer won't be carrying the forthcoming outboard DAC.  When I was in the store about a yr. ago with a friend and both of us were interested in DACs, the owner's remarks were that DACs were 'passe.'  They don't want to set up a DAC with different transports and also have it hurt sales of their main more expensive lines of CD players.  I myself am using an old MicroMega DuoPro DAC with a Marantz DV9600 universal for CD playback and would love to be able to listen to the Bryston (and compare) but it won't happen.  Bryston should look at its dealer network and where there is not good representation of its products try to do a bit better.  They may not be able to get better dealers in every area but a few good dealers can't hurt.

[James Tanner]

I agree - part of our new program is a total cleanup of inadaquate dealers.
I appreciate the input it will help us sort out what dealers we will support.

james

[Crimson]

I don't mean to offend, but driving around a 'few hundred miles' expecting to critically (?) audition a preamp/DAC without confirming it's availability sounds a bit rash. I wouldn't expect any dealer to stock every model of a particular brand. I'm also in Jersey, and have nothing but praise for Ken at Audio Nexus, Bob at Avalon, and John at Audio Connection, all of with whom I've done repeat business. These aren't Best Buy or Circuit City brands we're dealing with here.

[Phil A]

I don't mean to offend, but driving around a 'few hundred miles' expecting to critically (?) audition a preamp/DAC without confirming it's availability sounds a bit rash. I wouldn't expect any dealer to stock every model of a particular brand. I'm also in Jersey, and have nothing but praise for Ken at Audio Nexus, Bob at Avalon, and John at Audio Connection, all of with whom I've done repeat business. These aren't Best Buy or Circuit City brands we're dealing with here.

I've done that in the (way back in the) past but also with the idea to hear other things vs. one particular piece of equipment from one manuf.  With the boom in Home Theater, there are less dealers carrying products designed more for audio today in general.  My system is at the point (e.g. Thiel 7.2s, 14BSST) and I'm not as into certain things as I once was that I would certainly call at this point if I wanted to look at one thing.  If something was only available at a dealer that I was not as familiar (and comfortable) with and was more than a certain distance, it also would be a factor to consider in my decision.  If I am going to pay for that retail mark-up necessarily for that dealer to be there, it would have to be something I'm comfortable with and that's going to be of value (vs. a pain in the event I had issues to handle down the road) to me.  There are many dealers who either carry the more popular home theater stuff or like my closest local Bryston dealer don't really support the brand vs. other things.  It is not a good situation, when I have about as much Bryston equipment to do a demo as the local dealer.  There's a high probablity I'll be getting involved in a business involving home audio distribution and it is also not a good situation when I have nowhere in reasonable distance (vs. other brands carried by various dealers) to send a customer to look at the stuff.

[bsmith15]

I agree on the frustration of dealers not even having demo units on the floor to listen & compare.  Usually I leave wondering how someone in my area is to purchase brand XXX equipment other than drive 100+ miles or purchase on the internet.  You would think that having demo units would be a minimum requirement to be an authorized dealer.  I can understand however not having every version of let's say the BP25 or BP26 in the store due to financial considerations.  I can also understand not carring units in stock (as much as I would like to listen and leave that day with a new peice of gear) due to the cost of carrying inventory with these small businesses.

I did not have this problem when I purchased my 4B-SST and BP-20P as my dealer had both on the floor so I could listen and compare.  While they had to order the units, Bryston was great on delivery (my 4B took less than 10 days delivery to my dealer).

[sikoniko]

I have been looking very closely at the sp2. My local dealer told me that they do not plan to stock it immediately, and if I wanted to demo it, I would have to buy it with a 30 day return policy. i dont want to buy anything without being able to compare it to my other options first.

[James Tanner]

I have been looking very closely at the sp2. My local dealer told me that they do not plan to stock it immediately, and if I wanted to demo it, I would have to buy it with a 30 day return policy. i dont want to buy anything without being able to compare it to my other options first.

Hi,

Who is the dealer?

james

[dan_lo]

I have been looking very closely at the sp2. My local dealer told me that they do not plan to stock it immediately, and if I wanted to demo it, I would have to buy it with a 30 day return policy. i dont want to buy anything without being able to compare it to my other options first.

Well...
I wanted to buy the bp26DA, and my dealer told me the same thing, only without the 30 day  return policy.

I can relate to their fear of taking a risk in having a unit for demo. However, I'm reluctant to buy an expensive piece of gear without a prior test or a return policy - even from Bryston.

[BachToRock]

In this century, I would think that a company like Bryston would consider selling direct to the consumer via the internet... eliminate the reps, need for printed advertising material, etc.

I would sure buy more product at wholesale prices or less... there are no dealers in Phoenix where I live... that's one of the 5 largest cities in the USA!  Why pay so much for a person to answer the phone and send the box to my doorstep... that's all most dealers are doing.  The only people benefitting are UPS(delivering the same box twice) and the Dealers with an easy sale.

Bryston could make their same margin and sell more product by going direct.  Their dealers obviously aren't committed to them, so why should Bryston suffer from the lack of dealer support... this is the best product that deserves to be in more homes.

[James Tanner]

Hi There,

Can anyone give me an example of at high quality audio company that went direct and is still here?

james

[guest2521]

"But answer came there none-
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one."

The walrus and the carpenter, by Lewis Carroll

[BachToRock]

It's a new age... consumers get their information from the internet and PREFER to shop from their home... when it comes to high end gear, we prefer to audition it in our home.  

What is the difference between selling direct and having limited dealers that won't even stock the product anyway... they are basically ORDER TAKERS.

My point again... I live in the 5th LARGEST CITY(Phoenix, AZ) in the United States... an area booming with luxury home construction and high end entertainment... the CLOSEST Bryston dealer is 2 HOURS away.  Who the heck is selling your product... dealers in small towns?  Consumers like myself have to order the product through a dealer and pay a huge markup for what... them to answer the phone and take an order?

Pleny of companies are succesful at selling direct to the consumer and Bryston gear is perfect for that since it is so reliable...
Don't be blind James... I am sure the largest percentage of your existing dealers sales are internet and shipment based... every single Bryston owner I know has purchased the product through the net or by phoning a dealer.

I assume Bryston is in business to make money and also provide music lovers with components of exceptional quality.  The current method limits both of these as there is inadequate dealer coverage/support and the gear is beyond many people's budgets because of the dealer markup.  By selling direct, Bryston could make more money since more consumers would be able to afford the gear at wholesale prices.

[elcaptain88]

What percentage of Bryston's sales are to pro/commercial customers and what percentage are to 'high end' individual customers via hifi dealers? Just curious - I get the sense Bryston's 'commercial' business (unlike other vendors here) is much more significant than their business to folks like us.

[James Tanner]

Hi Rock,

I agree things have changed but what has 'REALLY' changed is our customer.

In the good old stereo days our customer was the end user like yourself who researched and educated themselves about the products and purchased acordingly. Today the vast majority of sales are to the Custom Installers and Retail Outlets. In other words customers do not spend the time investigating - they do not on the whole walk into a dealer and demand a specific product. They typically ask the installer/retailer what they should buy.

I think part of it is just the complexity of home theater and the fact that the business has become very much a 'Video' and  'Feature" driven industry rather than a 'Performance' driven industry.

As you say:

"My point again... I live in the 5th LARGEST CITY(Phoenix, AZ) in the United States... an area booming with luxury home construction and high end entertainment"

Do you think the people buying those custom homes make the decisions about what goes into their systems?  I wish it were not so but the reality is that the vast majority of the sales are through the Custom/Retail dealers.

Also another issue is the fact that the cost of Direct Sales are a lot more than 'wholesale'. You still have to 'affect' the customer to purchase your product over others and that takes a lot of advertizing and marketing. How would you deal with literature in all languages, product demonstrations, overseas sales, warranty repair etc. This all adds up in a big hurry.

james

[James Tanner]

What percentage of Bryston's sales are to pro/commercial customers and what percentage are to 'high end' individual customers via hifi dealers? Just curious - I get the sense Bryston's 'commercial' business (unlike other vendors here) is much more significant than their business to folks like us.

About 60 percent to 'folks like you' -mainly because Home Theater is the driving force behind todays market.

james

[Phil A]

James, I understand your points and those of everyone else too.  Here is a thought - Magnepan, sells MMGs and matching center and surrounds only direct to customers and has dealers.  It offers a trade in program within a specified period of time for those trading up at their dealers.  Ohm Acoustics (ohmspeakers.com) at one time sold thru dealers.  Some other cos. (don't know if I would classify them as high end but certainly well made) like Bang & Olefsen had dealers and now seem to be opening their own shops.  I'm sure there are other examples as well.

You might have gotten the impression that I don't like my local Bryston dealer.  That is not the case at all.  I had a friend who worked there many years part time (and moved but still helps out about half a dozen times a year) and I did the vast majority of his set-ups/deliveries with him when he worked there on a regular basis and even worked for him a few Saturdays over a 5-yr. period when he was not available.  I just came back from there and had a software update done on a DVD-A player.  While I was there the (owner) dealer played his new Levinson stack incl. a $6.7k CD player.  He has other expensive CD players in the store.  It is doubtful as noted above that he will even consider having a product like the DAC available when it is out.  He barely carries Bryston stuff as it is (an SP2 and a couple of amps - I have a 1.7 - which I will upgrade when HDMI 1.3 is settled and a couple of amps, incl. the 14BSST which he has never carried - and his thinking is likely why should he sell that when he can sell a couple of brands for more).  So, as I noted previously, I can likely do a better Bryston product demo than he can (I have 3 complete systems and can drag other speakers to it as well).

Are there products that might be better for Bryston to sell direct to customers (a better price for customers and better profit for Bryston) such as the outboard DAC?  Would it be practical for Bryston to have a less expensive integrated amp (than they currently have), power amp or pre-amp to sell direct to customers with a trade-in policy at dealers for the original purchaser only? Perhaps the direct to customer sales would have a 5-yr. warranty with a dimishing trade-in scale over that period so that they could trade up to an amp, integrated amp or preamp with a 20 yr. warranty (except on the digital circuits) when purchased from an authorized Bryston dealer?

Just some thoughts.  For example if I decide I want to hear the forthcoming Bryston DAC, is it not a shame for a loyal Bryston customer to pay some much to an order taker (as noted by others in this thread) who pretty much does nothing to support the product.  I noted the comment previously made to me about a year ago that DACs are 'passe.'  I understand you want to support a dealer network but where there is either no dealer or inadequate dealer support (incl. dealers who really may hurt your products by not carrying much of it and pushing other more expensive stuff lining their pockets and not Bryston's pockets) in certain areas do you really want to send the message that consumers' need to be on the short end of the stick?  Perhaps in cases where there is no dealer within 100 miles you want to work with your current dealer network to enable some sort of reasonable audition policy where neither the dealer or consumer is hurt?

[guest2521]

James is exactly right - direct sellers can only survive if they are small scale niche sellers that sell to a small but well informed audience. Like bent audio, diy hifi supply etc etc. If Bryston adopted this tactic they would be dead in the water. The majority of audio gear sold these days is HT and PMC / Bryston are well placed to capitalise on that. I know someone that owns a $5m apt who paid out over a $100k on a home entertainment system. He handed over a big bag of cash and told the retailer to make sure they brought him the remotes fully labelled up. Hifi train spotters like us who meticuously and obsessively research our topic area are very much in the minority.

[95bcwh]

Most of the time, even if you can find a dealer, the dealer will not stock the particular Bryston product that you're looking for. For example I live in Houston, and there's only one authorized dealer (Houston is the 4th largest city in the US!), he's very pleasant and helpful, but still he doesn't have a BP26-DA that I wanted to hear.

I wish I could order a Bryston online and have a 30-day money back guarantee, if I don't like it I will return it and just pay the shipping charge.

The idea that one can go into a dealership and audition the gear before buying is very "traditional", and this is how the industry get started. But in today's market, with so many products competing against each other, both the customer and the dealership are faced with very tough choices. Dealers can no longer stock the full product lines, there're less and less chances that customer can hear the product before they commit. The divine concept of dealership is no longer working.

It is perhaps time for leading companies like Bryston to re-examine the distribution method. Going 100% online may not be the only solution. I am not smart enough to tell people how to do their business. I will however be disappointed if Bryston continue to stick to the traditional way.

Tact is selling both online and through dealership. Speakers companies like Axiom, Ascend, Orb, Aperion, Salksound are all selling online and are doing just fine..

[95bcwh]

James is exactly right - direct sellers can only survive if they are small scale niche sellers that sell to a small but well informed audience. Like bent audio, diy hifi supply etc etc. If Bryston adopted this tactic they would be dead in the water. The majority of audio gear sold these days is HT and PMC / Bryston are well placed to capitalise on that. I know someone that owns a $5m apt who paid out over a $100k on a home entertainment system. He handed over a big bag of cash and told the retailer to make  ...

Biovizier, no offense to you. Your comments reminds me of the old  mindset: "This thing has always work for me, so why change?"  or "This thing has never worked, so why try again?"

There's no evidence that selling online will not work for Bryston, it is an uncertain world. The example you brought up, it looks like the rich guy had pretty much had his mind set on Bryston. What he needs is not a dealership where he can go and listen, he just need someone to install the system for him. There're many custome home theater installation professional around. If Bryston is only available online, the rich guy can still hire an installation guy, tell him to order Bryston online and then installed in his home, doing it this way will still save him quite a bit of money. You don't need the traditional dealership to make this work.

People tends to use history to predict the future, but we have to recognise that many of the very successful corporations in America become what they are today by consistently defying history. To ensure survival, company has to learn how to take calculated risk, have a robust plan and exit strategy, and continue to learn from mistake.