A speculating question for Wayne.

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JoshK

A speculating question for Wayne.
« on: 20 May 2003, 02:13 pm »
Wayne,

I completely respect your opinion.  Your work speaks for itself.  I had once asked you about biwiring.   Let me propose the question again, but this time in leiu of your new products.  

Take VMPS RM series speakers for example (like mine and Tyson's RM40's, your 626R, etc) where the speakers are noted to have very positive results using jumpers instead of the toggle switch.  Do you have any thoughts on whether your M80 speaker cables plus a M80 jumper would be equal to a double run of M80s from the amp? Certainly the later is more expensive, but that leads me to the speculation of the double run of M80's versus a single run of Nitro's plus jumpers.

I am curious as to how those combo's would stack up against eachother.  I know you and the DAM did some combo comparisons a while back with some double runs.  I recall something like using the Nitros on the highs and M80's on the lows.

Wayne1

A speculating question for Wayne.
« Reply #1 on: 20 May 2003, 03:32 pm »
Interesting you ask that question, Josh.

Tyson and I were talking about that on Saturday when he came over to pick up his jumpers.

His home theater is down, due to the fact that he sold all his HT speakers and his new ones haven't arrived. While he was waiting for me to build the Bybee jumpers, he tried out bi-wiring with the M-80s on top and the NITRO for the low end. I suggested he try it out the other way aroynd. The M-80 speaker cable has a truly great low end but is bettered by the NITRO speaker cable in the mids and highs.

I have not heard back from him since then about the results.

I have been looking into bi-wiring again and I may change my mind on a few things

First off, almost any kind of cable jumper is better than running high current signal through the contacts of a toggle switch. Relying on a spring to maintain pressure against some contacts is looking for trouble, eventually. The contacts in a switch WILL get dirty. Without question a jumper is better than a switch. A switch is there for convenience.

As to bi-wiring, I have been re-reading Jon Risch's notes on it on his website http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/biwiring.htm and I find the idea of the different current draws for each type of driver at different frequencies making a lot of sense. Separating the high current requirements of the woofer at low frequencies from the mids and highs will help to reduce intermodulation distortion. I do feel that the two runs will have to be physically separate from each other to avoid the magnetic fields each cable is putting out.

To give you a grading system I would say that using M-80 with a M-80 jumper would be better than using M-80 and the toggle switch. Using M-80 with a NITRO jumper would be better yet. Then comes NITRO with an M-80 jumper, NITRO with a NITRO jumper. M-80 for lows and NITRO for highs Bi-wire and finally NITRO Bi-wire.

I would put the M-80 biwire between the M-80 with M-80 jumper and the M-80 with NITRO jumper. The NITRO speaker wire is really that much better than the M-80 and to my ears, in the VMPS systems I have listened to, even a short length of speaker cable makes a difference.

Now when you start adding Bybee purifiers into the equation, everything changes. I have not done enough research into what happens with the Bybee at speaker levels, yet. Hopefully in a few weeks The DAM can get together at Tyson's and mess up his place with lots of wires and purifiers and other assorted geek gear.

Tyson

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A speculating question for Wayne.
« Reply #2 on: 20 May 2003, 03:46 pm »
I've tried bi-wire w/m80's on the top, w/nitro on the bottom, nitro on the top and m80's on the bottom, and Nitro's w/the bybee'd nitro jumper.  I liked the bybee'd jumper the best, but the m80's on bottom w/nitro's on top was suprisingly good.  

I'm using banana's to connect the jumper, but I didn't realize how badly the VMPS binding posts suck for accepting banana's.  They barely hang in there, they can't be inserted all the way, so not a very good contact.  I think I'll get an extension w/spades, I'm sure the stronger contact will improve the sound even more.

Oh yeah, bypassing the switch, definitely worth it.

JoshK

A speculating question for Wayne.
« Reply #3 on: 20 May 2003, 05:35 pm »
Tyson,

What kind of bananas are those?  I have had zero problems using bananas with my RM40's.  I have used a few different sets too.  The bananas on the Wax jumpers I use provide a very snug fit and slide in all the way.  Could be something up with that.

Thanks Wayne for your detailed explanation.  After I purchase a condo and my wife lets me play again I will have to get in touch with you (next year this time).

Tyson

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A speculating question for Wayne.
« Reply #4 on: 20 May 2003, 05:53 pm »
Just used some generic banana plugs I got from Radio Shack.  They are the standard size, but they don't slide in all the way, they hit "bottom" about halfway in, and thus don't generate any contact pressure at all.  I'm getting rid of the banana's & sticking with spade lugs.