[Jmill]

I currently own a pair of Paradigm Reference 40s and have actually been pretty happy with them.  I am running them with a Rotel RSX-1056 receiver and my source is a Rotel RDV-1040.  I am considering building the 1801f, but I am unsure if my equipment will bring out the best in these speakers.  I have heard many comments that they can be too revealing with the wrong equipment.  I would really appreciate any input.  Also, is there anyone out there who lives in the St. Louis(or surrounding) area that would be willing to let me hear them.  
Thanks!

Jeff

[hubert]

Just my 2 cents:

Listening to good sources, playing with speakers placement in the listening room, selecting the well amount of stuffing, trying different ports lenghts, are much more important than the types of electronics used with the Ellis.
And don't forget this:http://www.ellisaudio.com/resistorvalueoptions.htm
 

[David Ellis]

Hmmmmm,

Your query is fairly substantial.  I'll try to address the pertinent issues. I will not covery ALL the issues, but the ones I believe are most pertient.

I am considering building the 1801f, but I am unsure if my equipment will bring out the best in these speakers.

The short answer is "no". A longer answer is that better source gear is, well, better.  Certainly Rotel gear is above-par with respect to commercial gear, and is fairly decent.  My subjective guess is that your gear is probably about average quality among 1801 customers.  As such there shouldn't be an real "fear".

There are many things that make a speaker sound harsh/edgy.  Much of this is covered in the resistor value options section of my web page.  Essentially, faithful response with regard to dynamics and distortion of the input signal will often sound slightly harsh.  This is simply because most studio monitors use monitors having soft cones and non-linear motors.  This creates a warm sound.  The mixing is accomplished with those monitors which is fine for those monitors.  However, problems arise when this music is conveyed through a speaker having less distortion.  All of that grunge hidden by those soft paper cones will be conveyed.

Because of this, I generally listen to my speakers with a slighty downward slope. The top of the frequency response is 2-3db down from the midrange/bass.  The reduction of musical harmonics will soften the harsh edge.

I this regard, I think recording quality and choice makes far more impact than the choice of source gear.  If your desire is listening to Journey and REO Speedwagon, I highly suggest you do NOT purchase the 1801.  However, if you long for Allison Krause, John Lee Hooker (many), Jennifer Warren (The Hunter), and anything from Delos, MDG, Reference Recordings, Chesky etc etc  your desire for a better speaker would be wise.

Many 1801 customers have conveyed a dramatic desire for better recordings after their purchase.  It's quite common for me to hear, "Dang, my good recordings sound wonderful, but there is a very unpleasant grunge on many of the other recordings."  Conversely, extremely few(maybe none) of my customers convey that their source gear suddenly becomes undesirable following the introduction of the 1801 into their system.

In summary.  My most vocal and supportive fans are die-hard audiophiles with extremely good source gear.  My least vocal and supportive fans are those having very modest source gear that use the 1801 for Home Theater.

In summary, I am confident that your source gear is adequate, but your recording preferences may change.

Unfortunately, I don't keep a good record of previous customers, and don't know if there is someone in St. Louis.  However, if you ever drive through Omaha you are more than welcome to visit.

I do believe there is someone is St. Louis doing DIY speakers.  I don't remember the gent's name, but believe his source gear was very solid.  I am certainly not the only guy in the neighborhood.   ALL of the DIY speaker-geek folks I have enountered were very good guys.  I encourage you to post a query for your desire to audition any DIY speakers on this page:   http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/discuss.cgi .  

Whew, that got slightly long.

Dave




[/quote]

[wildfire99]

A lot of times I'll be listening to music (or even movies) and I'll notice that grunge. It's a veil that covers the audio that makes it seem lifeless, and I'll start to complain to myself about how it's time to upgrade something. But then, I'll put a certain recording on or hear some audio that just blows me away, that literally is so detailed and realistic that you have to pause the audio just to make sure that the sound is really coming from your speakers.

It's those moments that make me extremely happy to have used the 1801's in my system. While I may not have top-shelf electronics, the 1801's are one of the few things I do have in my system that I never say to myself, "I really need to upgrade those."

I do have an itch right now for some more dynamic (read: loud) three ways, but that's only to fill an enormous room with actual hearing-damaging levels of sound for movies. My big problem with building three-ways for movies is that I'm not sure I will find something as detailed and revealing (yes... I do appreciate hearing everything) as the 1801's. So many other speakers are just plain disappointing after having these units. Say what you like about lossy DVD audio formats, but I feel the 1801's bring out whatever is in the source, including the good stuff.

I don't usually evangelize about products, but for the price of the 1801's, especially compared to traditional speakers like Paradigm Reference and B&W, the value is just astronomical, not to mention the performance. Hook these up with a good sealed sub and I wouldn't take the Reference 100's over them.

I do use these 85% HT / 15% music, but I do know a good thing when I hear it. I still am amazed when I put audio on and the 1801's are more detailed than my AKG 501 monitor headphones, which I still use to master audio recordings.

[bhobba]

First I want to congratulate Dave on an excellent post.

In this regard, I think recording quality and choice makes far more impact than the choice of source gear.

You bet.  You have no idea how good it is to hear someone tell it like it is.  You see many famous blind listening tests have shown that all competently designed amplifiers driving reasonable loads sound the same
http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf
Yet many highly trustworthy engineers, people of the caliber of Hugh Dean from Aspen, who design amplifiers mostly by ear, will tell you (IMHO correctly) otherwise.  How come?  The answer is in your own setup on recordings you know well recording quality may no longer be the determining factor eg when listening critically over time you will gravitate towards those recodings that show up the differences.  What this means in practice is that unless you are already a died in the wool audiophile then simply get the cheapest competently designed amplifier and over time upgrade.  I usually recommend a panny XR55 because it is cheap and slim and blind listening tests have confirmed its transparency -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=602135

But since you already own competent amps I would simply use them for the time being and audition other amps to see if, to your ears, you can find an improvement.  Of course I recommend you do all such comparisons blind.

As an aside I also recpommend you visit the Aspen forum - IMHO Hugh Dean writes very lucidly on the issue of amplifyer sound.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26663.msg236874#236874

Again thanking Dave for his excellent post.

Thanks
Bill