Negative Review of Nuforce Amplifier Ref 8

Aether Audio · « **Reply #60 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 10:48 pm »

Occam,

After going back to your post on page four of this thread (the one with the oscilliscope pics), I went to the audioholics link you posted and dug a little deeper. I suspect your intentions were good, but I have to say that posting those screen shots was a rather poor and potentially misleading decision. My first impression the first time I viewed your post was that those screen shots were actual scope results of a Nuforce Ref 9 - per your implied comment.

Even then I thought: "This is a bunch of balogna. There's no indication of the scope's time-base settings or vertical amplifier gain settings. How is a person to know what frequency(ies) we're looking at or what the voltage magnitude is? It could be volts, millivolts or even microvolts! There's a big difference between volts in the kHz range and microvolts in MHz spectrum!!!"

Well, now I know better. That scope photo was a shot of some Brand "X" product that the author leaves completely un-named. After going to the second page of the article, the technical scope info is provided. Now I know that the shot was of a 500Hz tone with an approx. 700mVp-p spurious RF component. More importantly, I know it's probably not a Nuforce amp. I say "probably not" for the fact that most author's will use a "worst case" example to make their pont. From what I can infer from that screen shot, the spectral content of that spur would not permit the unit to get even close to passing the FCC spec. We do know that at least the Nuforce gear has been FCC aproved.

And whether it was a Nuforce product or not, only the author of that article knows for sure. Your posting seemed to imply that the photo was, in absolute fact... a Nuforce Ref 9. Well, that's what it seemed to me anyway. OK, maybe I'm "stupid," but still...that's not good. Of course one can find out the facts of the matter if they take the time to fully check out the link, but what about those that just do a cursory reading of your post? That's what I did at first and if I was so mislead, I suspect that would be true of many others as well. Many of us skim over threads and postings as we just don't have the time to check every possible link that others may post. How many others did as I did and went away thinking that was a Nuforce amp in that pic? How many went away thinking, "Geez, what a piece of crap" ?

I understand now that you were trying to imply that that's what "you" think must be going on in the Nuforce gear. All well and good, but I think everyone here would appreciate it if such matters were shared more explicitly and with the facts clearly pointed out within the body of one's posting. From what I see of the many amature postings here, nobody is falling all over themselves to be sure as many relavent details as possible are provided in their offerings of technical information - Mr. (a)Sassen none the least of such guilty parties. If you guys are going to go the "technical facts" route, at least make sure that you correctly share ALL of the facts and that they are truly factual. Misguided half-truths are worse than no truths at all. The ol' "serpent" new that much way back in the Garden.

-Bob

James Romeyn · « **Reply #61 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 10:59 pm »

Sander
Why the heck did you omit the SNs?
Why did you reveiw an amp that doesn't exist except on the used market?
Why did you omit the point that the model is discontinued & has been updated, apparently in a major way?

Any one of the three items is very bad form for a pro review.

You were cryptic of the original source. Did not even clarify new or used? If used no one can know what the heck is inside those boxes!

kfr01 · « **Reply #62 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser

Is Sander genuine? The only reason he’s become an audio critic as of late is because he has been raked over the coals in his former area of expertise. Google search “Sander Sassen ATI” Hereis a link if you can’t be bothered…

I'm not defending Sander, I'm defending the right of green reviewers to post on any products they want.

I have no comment about this particular issue as I have absolutely zero experience with Nuforce, their amps, or Sander.

art · « **Reply #63 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 11:12 pm »

Heck, I want to know who is Wind Chaser, and what his agenda might be.

Not that it matters. Just curious.

Pat

audioferret · « **Reply #64 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 11:14 pm »

All this talk of insurance has me thinking: "maybe I should get some quotes on car insurance, I could save money!"

How's Colorado compare to New York?

AB · « **Reply #65 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 11:38 pm »

Occam wrote;
"I've asked for to resolve various issues with facts rather than smears, I am an optimist and believe there is room for personal redemtion for us all, no matter how skeevy."

skeevy? I haven't heard that word in 30 years! Did you grow up in southern Connecticut??

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #66 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 12:53 am »

AB,

I think 'skeevy' is short for 'skeevose'. It's a term that is used by Southern Italians (as this is the poorest section of Italy, that is where most of the Italians in the US originate from). It pretty much means vile and/or disgusting

I'm not even sure if there is anything like it in modern Italian...it may itself be slang from Sicily...a language on to itself within Italy.

If you're lucky, and you have cable, you might catch it's use on The Soprano's

Occam · « **Reply #67 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 02:27 am »

Quote from: SP Pres

Occam,

After going back to your post on page four of this thread (the one with the oscilliscope pics), I went to the audioholics link you posted and dug a little deeper. I suspect your intentions were good, but I have to say that posting those screen shots was a rather poor and potentially misleading decision. My first impression the first time I viewed your post was that those screen shots were actual scope results of a Nuforce Ref 9 - per your implied comment.
............
Well, now I know better. That scope photo was a shot of some Brand "X" product that the author leaves completely un-named. After going to the second page of the article, the technical scope info is provided. Now I know that the shot was of a 500Hz tone with an approx. 700mVp-p spurious RF component. More importantly, I know it's probably not a Nuforce amp. I say "probably not" for the fact that most author's will use a "worst case" example to make their pont. From what I can infer from that screen shot, the spectral content of that spur would not permit the unit to get even close to passing the FCC spec. We do know that at least the Nuforce gear has been FCC aproved.
...

Do we now???? I've no doubt that some sample that was submitted to an approved Lab did pass the RFI emissions test per FCC sec. 15. Do I think a PRODUCTION version of the Ref9 is capable of passing that test. ABSOLUTELY NOT! My goodness, thats quite a paradox..... I'm shocked! shocked do you hear! that shenanigans may be transpiring before our very eyes. But, but.... the NuForce amps carry that FCC certification sticker. Therefore those continuing reports of the incompatibility of FM reception must be specious. I do know the components from which those screenshots were generated, though I will admit that I don't know the specific serial numbers.
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/SwitchingAmplifierBasics.php
But I frankly don't care what you believe. It shouldn't be that hard for you to take an in service Ref9 (NOT one sent to you by NuForce for that specific purpose) and put it on your scope and draw your own conclusions. What I or Tranh (that bastion of integrity) say is not germane, what is germane is what your scope and instrumentation tells you.

Bob - I do understand your logic. But it is simply a circular tautology unless you make the assumption that NuForce and its principals are acting with integrity. Go to the upper left corner of your screen, hit 'search' and put 'TNT' in the box for author and read those threads in which he has participated, prior to it being revealed that he is a principal of NPhysics/NuForce. Then draw your own conclusions. An audio component is largely a reflection of the principals who design, manufacture, and market the component.

If it walks like a dissembling duck,
If it talks like a disengenuous duck,
It must be a skeevy duck.

Occam · « **Reply #68 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 02:34 am »

Quote from: AB

skeevy? I haven't heard that word in 30 years! Did you grow up in southern Connecticut??

AB - I picked up that expression from my wife, who grew up in the Highlandtown neighborhood of Baltimore in the 50s. She doesn't know specifically where she got the term, but given TCG's comment, the neighborhood was chock-a-block with ethnics. For some odd reason folks seem to think I'm a native Nu Yawka, but actually I'm from the suburbs of D.C., and was just a New Yorker waiting to happen.....

zybar · « **Reply #69 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 02:37 am »

Quote from: audioferret

All this talk of insurance has me thinking: "maybe I should get some quotes on car insurance, I could save money!"

How's Colorado compare to New York?

Everything outside of NJ is cheaper in terms of car insurance than NY.

Maybe we can put different insurance companies under a scope and determine who emits the most RFI (aka BS) and go after them?

George

rustydoglim · « **Reply #70 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 02:38 am »

Quote

So lets talk about hidden agendas. Don't you think it relevant to disclose that you are noneother than the CEO of NPhysics/Nuforce? Nuff said.....

That's not my post. I am the CEO of Nphysics/Nuforce.
I only just realize that Tranh, our CTO has been posting as TNT. He usually doesn't care much about marketing stuff. I agree that he should be posting as nuforce-tnt

Jason

zybar · « **Reply #71 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 02:40 am »

Quote from: Occam

Quote from: AB
skeevy? I haven't heard that word in 30 years! Did you grow up in southern Connecticut??

AB - I picked up that expression from my wife, who grew up in the Highlandtown neighborhood of Baltimore in the 50s. She doesn't know specifically where she got the term, but given TCG's comment, the neighborhood was chock-a-block with ethnics. For some odd reason folks seem to think I'm a native Nu Yawka, but actually I'm from the suburbs of D.C., and was just a New Yorker waiting to happen.....

BTW, I grew up in the burbs of NYC (Westchester County) and I can remember using the word "skeevy" lots as a kid.

George

randytsuch · « **Reply #72 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 02:46 am »

Quote from: nuforce-jason

Quote
So lets talk about hidden agendas. Don't you think it relevant to disclose that you are noneother than the CEO of NPhysics/Nuforce? Nuff said.....

That's not my post. I am the CEO of Nphysics/Nuforce.
Jason

I think he meant TNT.

So if Jason is the CEO, then what position does Tranh Nguyen hold?

Randy

rustydoglim · « **Reply #73 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 02:55 am »

I posted in a hurry and just corrected it (see the previous post).
Sorry. Tranh Nguyen is our CTO and inventor of the technology.
You can see a photo of himself on Nuforce website.
He is not trying to hide his identity. I just had a discussion with him and he understood that it was a mistake not to be clear about his identity.
He is an old timer engineer (he worked in the defense industry since the late 70s) and he lives his life around the lab. R&D is his life. I think some of you guys are just too harsh on him. He won't be posting here anymore after the series of attack. He hates to deal with this kind of stuff.

zybar · « **Reply #74 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 03:01 am »

Quote from: nuforce-jason

I only just realize that Tranh, our CTO has been posting as TNT. He usually doesn't care much about marketing stuff. I agree that he should be posting as nuforce-tnt

Jason

Jason,

You only NOW just realized that YOUR CTO has been posting in Nuforce and other Circles and not identifying himself?

Come on, please treat the AudioCircle reader with more respect and stop shoveling that kind of stuff our way!

George

rustydoglim · « **Reply #75 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 03:06 am »

I don't lie and it is true. Your post just crossed mine.
See my response in the post right before yours.
The reason is that our CTO works 120 miles away from our HQ and we are all very busy with different aspect of the company. If and when we chat, we talked about product development stuff.

arthurs · « **Reply #76 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 03:13 am »

Man this just gets funnier by the minute......

audioferret · « **Reply #77 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 03:21 am »

The user counter on the homepage of audiocircle.com currently indicates that there are 7 HIDDEN USERS on the site!

Who are they? What are they hiding from? What they doing?

I must say that it is kinda creepy that there are people out there, masked and cloaked from our senses, who quietly read our posts in the dark...

- shudder -

(Yes, this is meant as a joke...will everyone please relax. Audition the amp yourself. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Oh, and check to see if you can save money on your car insurance while you are at it.)

AB · « **Reply #78 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 03:27 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

AB,

I think 'skeevy' is short for 'skeevose'. It's a term that is used by Southern Italians (as this is the poorest section of Italy, that is where most of the Italians in the US originate from). It pretty much means vile and/or disgusting

I'm not even sure if there is anything like it in modern Italian...it may itself be slang from Sicily...a language on to itself within Italy.

If you're lucky, and you have cable, you might catch it's use on The Soprano's

That's it all right. My sister was always saying, " You are such a skeev!"
And, when faced with something gross, we kids would cry, " Skeev e mort!"
or just "Skeevosa!"
I remember more but most of it is just good old curse words and phrases.
Thanks for the memories! I am laughing still.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #79 on:** 8 Mar 2006, 03:27 am »

We're just a bunch of bickering losers

Relax man, have some wine and go listen to your audio. Buy whatever you like.

BTW, a very happy Ref 8 user just posted on AC:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26292