Negative Review of Nuforce Amplifier Ref 8

rustydoglim · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 07:48 am »

I will admit to Wind Chaser's criticism that I came on too defensive.
I was informed of the "attack" and didn't spend enough time to review all the facts. After several email exchanges with Sander, I now believe that he is not being malicious (not sure if he has other hidden agenda).
Just like Wind said in another post, Sander is just trying to make a name for himself and ended up doing a lousy job.

SSassen · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 07:53 am »

You gotta love people that attack the person rather than the problem, and rather type up lengthy replies speculating our measurements than to simple fire off a few questions to me. Really, I won't bite, nor will I sign up your email address to all gay-p0rn mailers I can find just because you happen to disagree with me.

So to facilitate matters here I am, got any questions? Concerns? Post them here, and I'd be happy to answer them, besides the personal ones of course.

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 08:29 am »

Quote from: SSassen

So to facilitate matters here I am, got any questions? Concerns? Post them here, and I'd be happy to answer them, besides the personal ones of course.

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com

Hello,

Quote

In Sandor’s novice review of the Nuforce Reference 8, there is no mention of the associated equipment used in the listening test. One can only wonder what the context of this meaningless exercise is. Not only that, he tells us nothing about his listening room. Is it 3 concrete walls with a toilet in one corner across from a bunk bed beside jail bars? There is no mention of the music or recordings being used. Was it AM radio? Who knows? All we know for sure is that the serial numbers are missing. Atta boy, Sandor!

[/list:u]Thank you and welcome to AudioCircle....

SSassen · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 08:46 am »

My equipment? Or just the equipment used in this particular test? I don't see how that's of any relevance. As firstly most of that is DIY, because there's no commercially available kit that'll satisfy me, and secondly the kit that I did not DIY has been modified so cannot be directly compared to the same products off-the-shelf.

For this test I've used my Silverado (with Stampede subwoofer) and Yellow Peril loudspeakers, of which a detailed description can be found below. The CD-players used were a Marantz CD42, modified and upgraded, as well as a Marantz CD7300, the third is a Philips VM1201 transport driving a DIY DAC through I2S which has two Wolfson WM8740 DACs and an output stage that's DC-coupled and uses a single AD8610 opamp.

The tube preamp is also listed below and is a modified Velleman kit, my class-D amplifier is none other than a dual-mono Hypex UcD400 and two UcD700 monoblocks I'm currently in the process of tweaking.

The Silverado, a small d'Appolito loudspeaker
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1815/

Yellow Peril, een overdaad aan G17RE/P's
http://www.zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1628

De Stampede, dual XLS12 subwoofer
http://www.zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1208

A simple Marantz CD42/52/72 modification
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74219

Believe the Hypex, class-D DIY amplifier
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1822/

Velleman K8020 high-end tube preamplifier
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1826/

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 08:56 am »

Thank you. At this hour of the night (I'm in NY) , its quiet here. I'm sure others will have questions for you later on today. Thanks again....

Chris[/list:u]

NealH · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 11:41 am »

Indeed, in general those reviews and/or write ups are very good. And, its great seeing measurements. I know some don't put faith in them but, its always prudent to include them for those that take interest in them. And, for those that don't take interest, well they can skip over that part. I wish I could read German so that I could understand the subwoofer review. Its a nice looking unit.

I sincerely hope Nuforce will upgrade those Ref 8s because it would serve our community well to see the latest version differs/improves upon the Ref 8s.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #26 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 12:48 pm »

Quote

I sincerely hope Nuforce will upgrade those Ref 8s because it would serve our community well to see the latest version differs/improves upon the Ref 8s.

Hey, how many times do we have to state our policy?

Minor upgrades are usually free.

Recently we upgraded a pair of amp for a UK customer through the dealer by sending parts for free to UK and today the customer emailed back:

"Just a quick message to say thank you for sending the upgrade to Keith at Angelsound - I have the amps back now and they are sounding sweeter than ever with positive changes in just about every area."

skrivis · « **Reply #27 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 01:51 pm »

Quote from: rnhood

The RF issue bothers me too. I would like to see the plot of conducted emissions on this amplifier as well as the configuration employed for the CE test. I had an earlier Bel Canto amp which also was an unintentional radiator in the classic sense of the term. The new evo model effectively resolved the conducted and radiated RF issues and, is a very nice sounding amplifier. Another item about the BC amp I favor is the linear power supply that is employed. Switch-mode supplies on the front end of a power ...

It probably isn't the amp itself that's radiating RFI or EMI. It's in a metal case after all. The issue is actually the cables connected to the amp AFAIK. This is why you often see ferrite cores on all the cables exiting a computer, for example.

I ran across this article yesterday:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/SwitchingAmplifierBasics.php

Please note that the above link is an article by a competitor of Nuforce's, so he may have made different design decisions than they did.

samplesj · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 02:02 pm »

Quote from: TNT

I know Sassen thru many of his posts in DYI Audio. He's a fan of UcD, built amps from those modules, and on DYI he has been very critical of NuForce whose rave reviews turn him green. I visited his website and saw that he's probably more into digital stuff. Hypex is one of his advertizer.

Ok, so you belive he is a fan of UcD and they support him via advertising so it was biased. You know at least with ads on his site someone can see them and make their own decision.

Didn't it come out in another thread that your email address is hosted at NForce's parent company? When were you going to tell us that you worked for NPhysics so we could make our own decision about whether to trust you or not?

Occam · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: TNT

I know Sassen thru many of his posts in DYI Audio. He's a fan of UcD, built amps from those modules, and on DYI he has been very critical of NuForce whose rave reviews turn him green. I visited his website and saw that he's probably more into digital stuff. Hypex is one of his advertizer.

In any event many of his statements are technically incorrect. For example, he thinks the feedback is taken from only one side of the H-bridge. Obviously he can build amps from kits but not from scatch, because tak ...

Hey TNT,

So lets talk about hidden agendas. Don't you think it relevant to disclose that you are noneother than the CEO of NPhysics/Nuforce? Nuff said.....

If you dispute Mr. Sassen's review, why don't YOU publish your own full measurements of the same?
While you're at it, could you please post a screenshot of the output of your Ref9 (latest model so there isn't any dispute), both differential and common mode, so we can clear up the questions as to why the NuForce amps continue to be incompatible with acceptable FM reception.

THIS is my understanding of the Ref9's output waveform from the Audioholics article -
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/SwitchingAmplifierBasics.php

One leg -differential

Both legs - common mode
Would you please post your screenshots? Did a PRODUCTION sample of your amp actually pass FCC sec 15 testing?

As you've been quite vociferous in commenting on Sander's review, could you similarly apply your expertise to the Audioholics article?

Thanks in advance,
Occam

arthurs · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 02:48 pm »

becoming quite a case study here......

kenk · « **Reply #31 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 04:01 pm »

Quote from: Occam

Hey TNT,

So lets talk about hidden agendas. Don't you think it relevant to disclose that you are noneother than the CEO of NPhysics/Nuforce? Nuff said.....

.

This is getting interesting.

skrivis · « **Reply #32 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 04:24 pm »

Quote from: Occam

Did a PRODUCTION sample of your amp actually pass FCC sec 15 testing?

I asked about FCC B rating in another thread and Jason replied that "of course it's FCC rated."

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25273&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

art · « **Reply #33 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 04:27 pm »

Anyone care to read TNT's other posts in the correct context now? They did not pass the sniff test first time around, but I kept my mouth shut.

My mailbox fills up, so one can only remain silent for so long.

Pat

Watson · « **Reply #34 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: samplesj

Didn't it come out in another thread that your email address is hosted at NForce's parent company? When were you going to tell us that you worked for NPhysics so we could make our own decision about whether to trust you or not?

Which thread was this?

kenk · « **Reply #35 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 04:30 pm »

Quote from: Watson

Quote from: samplesj
Didn't it come out in another thread that your email address is hosted at NForce's parent company? When were you going to tell us that you worked for NPhysics so we could make our own decision about whether to trust you or not?

Which thread was this?

Try this one.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25308.msg233804#233804&sid=fa8bd06917743fd229e3af4dcc923fb0

Watson · « **Reply #36 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 04:36 pm »

Well, I'll be darned. Looks like Nphysics/Nuforce is off my list of vendors to consider purchasing from. A CEO who engages in astroturfing is very disappointing.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #37 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 05:02 pm »

The Real World - AudioCircle!

We've got manufacturers posing as disinterested parties, reviewers that don't know that matching amps/speakers/components could affect performance, owners in deep distress, and a peanut gallery.

What could be better?

art · « **Reply #38 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 05:18 pm »

"My amps emit EMI, but that's ok.
I make mean posts
About your amps
And all the other Class D.
Now that you know who I am
My business is history!"

"He's an EE and he's ok." Etc.

Sorry, guys.........an opening that big is hard to resist.

Apologies to the Python troupe, and anyone here without a sense of humor.

[Edit: turns out that I can not spell. What else is new?]

Pat

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #39 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 05:21 pm »

Mr. Tranh (TNT), it really would be quite upright of you to clearly indicate in your Audio Circle sign-off that you are the CTO of NPhysics and NuForce. As you very clearly are partisan to your brand (and rightly you should be), so you need to clearly indicate who you are.

I didn't realize until earlier in this topic that you are but down the road from me, also. I'm curious to hear your product, but I have to tell you I think $750.00 per side for the least expensive (teeeny) amp you make is not what I consider in any way to be good value. I think it would need to take out my garbage on Tuesday nights AND keep my tires inflated at 44psi to consider it for that kinda' money

Still, I keep an open mind to your amp technology.....I'm not sure why others don't or cannot. My bias is procedural and substative, not personal.

I see this topic deteriorating into name calling, backbiting and personal grievances now. Let's get off the personal stuff, and back to audio, please.

John / TCG - Moderator