Balanced power...

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lowrider

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Balanced power...
« on: 2 Mar 2006, 11:36 am »
I have a TEAC DVD receiver tweaked, driving a pair of Schallwand Sangreal open bafle, fullrange driver...

Yesterday I added an ESE Labs Enlil balanced isolation transformer...  :o

Imediately noticed a much better image on my LCD, richer colours, more contrast, metals more metalic, it is also connected to the transformer...

Then leaned back and enjoyed the sound, a lot more "present", in the room, cleaner, quieter background...

Amazing...  8)

Occam

Balanced power...
« Reply #1 on: 2 Mar 2006, 02:37 pm »
Antonio,

Congratulations on your embrace of balanced power conditioning. From the review in TNT -
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/enlil_e.html
and the Ese Labs website -
http://www.eselab.si/
It appears very well implemented and I can see why your so pleased with your purchase.

If you feel comfortable with some DIY, it could be improved substantially with easily implemented (and easily reversible) mods by adding some ' Y' function capacitors. This is the inevitable problem with sharing your findings with others on audio boards - You're justifiably proud and want to share your findings on an excellent product.... and some clown comes along and says "but you can do better by ....."

The reason for my suggestion is as follows -
As implemented, your balancing transformer does a tremendous job in eliminating common mode noise. The double screening between the primary and secondary also does a very good job at minimizing transverse mode noise. But Ese Labs themselves recommends cascading multiple units for improved performance. So obviously, like in all things, there is room for improvement. The inherent action of transformers ensure the whatever residual transverse mode noise exits as balanced differential noise. Therefore you can you can take 2 capacitors, 1 from each of your now 'hot' lines, connect them to ground, and because their noise is of opposite polarity, they will sum to 0 at the ground. The choice of the specific capacitors for this task is critical, as they really do have a substantial subjective (and measureable) effect. Because those capacitors are in shunt mode, they will have no impact on current delivery.

If you're not interested in DIY, I apologize for the intrusion. Folks here know that balancing powerconditioners are my ' raison de etre'. Its quite sad  :?. You have good reason to be pleased with your purchase.

Regards,
Paul

lowrider

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Balanced power...
« Reply #2 on: 2 Mar 2006, 02:56 pm »
Hi Paul,

Thank you for your post, I am not into diy, but I will show your post to them, and see what they say about it, in the end, if it is such a big improvement I will find someone to do it for me...

CornellAlum

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Balanced power...
« Reply #3 on: 2 Mar 2006, 03:00 pm »
Occam, could the same thing be done to a bpt unit?  What I would like to do is add auricaps across each of my outlets in my bpt 1.5 or whatever it is like they do in the upgrades that are availible.  Would doing what you described here further augment my plans?

Occam

Balanced power...
« Reply #4 on: 2 Mar 2006, 11:43 pm »
Antonio,

The reason for my post that upon looking at the innards -

I saw no capacitors whatsoever, and aparently the outlets connect their  wires by screw downs, which would make adding (or removing) capacitors in that position very easy. I'm puzzled by the lack of capacitors in your balancing conditioner, as caps used in shunt mode either accross the line or to ground simply do not constrain dynamics. This is the first balancing conditioner I've ever seen that has no caps to aid its functionality. Regardless of whatever exceptional specs that transformer may have, the double shielding only serves to minimize capacitive coupling of noise, and toroids because of their very high bandwidth will pass transverse mode high frequency noise inductively. This is not to say the Enlil isn't an excellent product, but I it could be improved by standard industry and engineering practices.

Cornell - I believe BPT conditioners already uses capacitors to symbioticly aid its transformers functionality, at least in their more bespoke versions. If your outlets are not separated from each other by filters with inductive components, puting caps on each outlet is basically equivalent to putting however many caps accross a single outlet. You might be better served by putting different value caps accross the different outlets which is equivalent to bypassing the caps, and it also makes things less crowded

lowrider

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Balanced power...
« Reply #5 on: 3 Mar 2006, 07:17 am »
The manufacturer replied, but I am using my words, not his...

He says your "mods" might improve a lot or not, he tries to make products that will always work well, not depending on system...

This is my understanding, I could be wrong...  :roll:

I had other people sujesting other mods when they see that picture, for instance star wiring...

From the results in my humble system, I have to say ESE Labs know what they are doing, everything can be improved, particularly to better match a certain component or system, but I have such dispar components, that if it improves one it might hurt another, so I will keep it as is for now...

Thanks anyway, I do appretiate your comments...

lowrider

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Balanced power...
« Reply #6 on: 4 Mar 2006, 07:50 am »
ESE Labs reply:

Quote
Yesterday evening I called a good friend of mine and one of our collaborators to come over here to do a test. I made a few capacitor pairs as suggested by Paul and mount them to free shuko plugs so they are easily connected or disconnected from Enlil. The test was done on our reference system. Trying was done with diverse music from tuner, CD and turntable. Conclusion? I have to say that I was more positive than he was. He did not like the softness the mod bring. I can say the same as before, it can be a positive, negative or a tweek that does virtualy nothing. It depends. You have to understand that the trial with caps was done already about two years ago when I was developing Enlil and then decide not to mount them.

Jampot

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Balanced power...
« Reply #7 on: 4 Mar 2006, 10:31 am »
Quote
Occam wrote

The choice of the specific capacitors for this task is critical, as they really do have a substantial subjective (and measureable) effect.


Antonio,

Do you suppose the guys at ESE would tell us what caps they tried?

Paul

If they will do that, could you venture a 'starter' selection of caps to try?

I have no knowledge or experience in this field but have followed the threads about Wayne1's 'ultimate' (SB) power supply among others - sufficient to believe the caps make a difference, in spite of the report from ESE.

Jim

lowrider

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Balanced power...
« Reply #8 on: 4 Mar 2006, 10:54 am »
I could ask, of course, but as Occan wrote and ESE Labs confirmed,
Quote
they really do have a substantial subjective (and measureable) effect


I am sure it also depends on the construction of each transformer, probably some need it more than others...  :roll:

I am really happy with what it did to my system, sound and image, as I mentioned elsewhere, I have to look now and then, to confirm the subwoofer is not there...  :o

The sub broke and I returned it for a new one...  :cry:

studley

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Balanced power...
« Reply #9 on: 4 Mar 2006, 11:26 am »
Paul
The Enlil uses a toroidal transformer to generate its balanced power.  Based on comments in the Felicia threads am I right in thinking that you believe that the Felicia is in principle a superior design, subject to its low power limitation?
Ian

Occam

Balanced power...
« Reply #10 on: 4 Mar 2006, 12:49 pm »
Quote from: studley
Paul
The Enlil uses a toroidal transformer to generate its balanced power.  Based on comments in the Felicia threads am I right in thinking that you believe that the Felicia is in principle a superior design, subject to its low power limitation?
Ian


Ian,

Sorta.... but actually no.  While the enlil uses a toroidal transformer, they mention that they do use 2 levels of shielding between primary and secondary, which is an excellent method of shunting capacitive coupling. This is an excellent but costly approach to limiting noise transmission, which costs roughly double the cost of toroids found in most audio components. They also mention their 'proprietary' method of winding their secondary which I assume is bi-filar winding which will ensure excellent balance between the 2 anti-phase legs. On my own balanced conditioner projects I use transformers with split bobbins which also minimize capacitive coupling. But in the 'best of all possible worlds' I'd use that same split bobbin construction, plus shielding between primary and secondary, and bi-filar windings. The net result would be transformers even more costly that the most bespoke custom implemented toroids. They'd also weigh far more than the equivalent toroid and be bulkier and have far more stray magnetic fields. (the last can be minimized by physical distance from other components and/or magnetically permeable (steel)enclosures.
I've no criticism whatsoever with ESE Labs choice of transformer for the task, and what is practical for a DIY project to feed a single source component may well not be feasable for a 500va balancing conditioner.

As to capacitive adjuncts to balacing transformers, based on my experience as well as that of others, their judicious use has always been beneficial. Using Y caps is an intrinsic claim in all 3 of Glasband's basic patents on techincal (balanced power) using bi-filar output windings. (I don't mandate use 'Y' caps on my Felicia project as the transformers used do not use bi-filar windings, but instead use additional 'X' caps to turn residual transverse noise into common mode noise to be dealt with by the second transformer. That appoach is simply not practical for a commercial product.

Antonio is justifiably pleased with his conditioner as is. I really don't want to hijack his thread, and my suggestion had the caveat that the easily implemented and reversed mod was predicated on his comfort with DIY.
Nor should I  'second guess' the choices made by  a vendor of a product with which I don't have personal hands-on experience. But as an addicted DIYer, I just can't help myself.

Regards,
Paul

studley

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Balanced power...
« Reply #11 on: 4 Mar 2006, 01:52 pm »
Thanks Paul, that's informative.

I've no intention of hi-jacking either and my excuse is that my enquiry and your response did usefully inform others who might have the enlil on their list of possible conditioners.

regards
ian

lowrider

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Balanced power...
« Reply #12 on: 4 Mar 2006, 02:14 pm »
You are not hi-jacking at all, I quite enjoy reading about this subject, even though I am not a DIYer...

I bought the Enlil because I read your posts in this forum...  :thumb:

RadioWonder

Balanced power...
« Reply #13 on: 5 Mar 2006, 06:59 pm »
I have modded all three of my Balanced Power Supplies with two
Large Bybee Purifiers.
These are rated at 15 amps.
They do make an improvement to the sound.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/audiogon_pix/WEBPAGES/bybee_purifiers.htm


I started with Par-Metal 20 Series case.
http://www.par-metal.com/index.htm

Then added balanced transformer and other parts.
This is the balanced transformer I used.
I used a 55/55 800VA.
The reason for 55/55 is it gives proper line voltage for my location.
The 60/60 gave me 128 volts.
This is dependent on how much you load up the conditioner and
your local power conditions.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=122-715

They also sell a 60/60 800VA.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&Start=2&Filter=Avel%2Btransformers&searchorderby=1&sm=1&so=1&search_type=main&desc=ASC
Two capacitors on left side are Auricaps .47 uF 600 volts, installed at output.
One Auricaps .047 uF 600 volts, installed at input.
I added the yellow heat shrink to protect the capacitors.

I also upgraded to Furutech FP-15 (cu) 15A receptacles(9-20-2006).
I use a ten amp circuit breaker/on/off switch. Digi-Key #302-1169-ND
And a Furutech Gold-plated FI-10(G) IEC inlet.

Here is two links to pictures of BPS.

http://home.att.net/~wh6dx/Balanced-PS1.jpg

http://home.att.net/~wh6dx/Balanced-PS2.jpg

Note: projects like this are only for experienced builders.

This was only posted to show that the Enlil can be further modded.
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2006, 02:06 pm by RadioWonder »

lowrider

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Re: Balanced power...
« Reply #14 on: 23 Jul 2007, 06:35 am »
I blew the original fuse when I connected the subwoofer to the transformer, B&W says 100 watts, but now I know it is a lot more peak power comsumption...  :nono:

Replaced it with a xindac silver fuse, couldnt believe the improvement on TV image, didnt test sound properly...  :o

ctviggen

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Re: Balanced power...
« Reply #15 on: 23 Jul 2007, 11:40 am »
How much is that transformer?  I looked on both the manufacturer's website and review and couldn't see a price. 

lowrider

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Re: Balanced power...
« Reply #16 on: 23 Jul 2007, 01:32 pm »
One year ago I payed over 800 euros, including shipping and 4 meters PC...