[mixsit]

It's taken a while but I've had a chance to at least get through part of my transition to the Continuum AD's and I must say the new speakers have been a wonderful change and the process has been both enlightening but also challenging.

Right off the bat, the overall improvement and many qualities of the speakers were evident. Smoothness of tone, clarity and focus of detail with no accentuation that I can detect, clean and tight right down to the basement, loud or soft. (I found out my GFA555 has clip lights. )

But what a long strange trip it's been...
It's at this point that I'll ask for some direction and assistance, from Bob and the members with regard to the low-end balance. I have apparently made a short (nearly) full circle. It will help to know I am coming off of a pair of 3-way Klipsch speakers that I know very well and have mixed projects on and listened to for quite a few years. But I know them to be also lean on bass compared to other systems (they also have about a 50hz cut off). So I am at all times expecting to have to do some re-calibrating and learn what flat' is. And a few very interesting things happened. First of all, as I listen to my best known references (CD's and mixes) I find that these speakers are highlighting the differences in tone and balance wonderfully -this is exactly what is wanted.   Second though, was a trend that was troublesome- A preponderance of low-end balance and/or a subdued vocal position. (Not on all, others that I know tend to run lean' remain lean'.) At this point I kept coming back at it, reminding myself that I am not used to full extension.
I loaded a bunch of these CDs into Sonar. Shame on me, but that's where I have some decent EQ's and I'm going to need to quantify this.

Breakthrough #1. Holy shit, half of the 'problem' goes away! The bottom is still there but the vocals, middle, band presence have stepped up, and in general the heavy footedness has lightened up -and the slightly-right imbalance I was beginning to fear were my ears, is gone.  The only difference is the Sony XA20ES Vs RME ADI-8 converters and analog. (The ADI goes to a PreSonus Central Station, both to a Coleman switcher to the amp. The Coleman and CS are both pasive.)

So three weeks into it (plus or minus a few gig weekends and an illness) I am still wrestling just a bit with 30 -100. Is there a chance that that end is a bit hot? I need to chip away some more on this, maybe find some other ways to quantify it. I hope you all can help me out here.  

Wayne Smith

[Bica]

Wayne, I suggest that you get or borrow an audio analyser to analyze your system/environment. There're some good handheld or PC-based ones available at less than $500. Should be a very good investment (and can be shared with your audiophile friends).

[Aether Audio]

Wayne,

That's the problem with true reference quality monitors...you have to take the bad with the good.  Back in the day when we first started, our intent was to market our stuff to the pros (still do).  At that time I had thought up a little slogan to go with the ads we had envisoned placing.  It went something like..."The Millennial Reference Series...it will change the way you work."  As you are discovering, that's not an exaggeration.  Don't be surprised if you end up changing a lot of things in your rig and also the techniques you use during recording and mixing.  

For starters, it sounds like you have an issue with your CDP's transport, DAC and/or analog output stage.  The mere act of transfereing to your hard drive and outputing through your sound card seems to have cleaned a lot of things up.  

Now then, make sure you have your interconnect cables oriented the right direction.  No crap! - but don't ask me to explain why.  I would never have believed it if I hadn't heard it myself - plain as day too.  I'm an engineer first and foremost, and a lot of the audiophile "tweaks" have made me want to literally bust out laughing.  I'm not laughing now.  I want to know WHY such seemingly rediculous things can make a clearly audible difference - but for now I've learned to just accept the fact that they do.  One of these days when I have the time I'm going to be trying real hard to figure it out.  At least as far as the world of physics goes, it's a "causal" universe.  There has to be a way to quantify these things and understand them.  Either that or I need to find a good source of "Pixey Dust."

But I'm getting off on a tangent.  It would be a far better idea to just start making sure you have good connections everywhere and that you're using decent cables.  Try Cramolin on all your cable contacts - great stuff and it can make a huge difference - and it's relatively cheap.  Then comes the component swaping.  That's where it gets ugly (expensive).  All I can say is "garbage in - garbage out."  If you dig deep enough, you're going to be miserable for a while before you get where you wanna be.

On top of all that, there's the problems that true 30Hz extension produces.  You've had room modes all along - we all do.  You just never noticed their effects before to the degree you are now.  Before you're done, you may end up either treating the heck out of your room or moving your entire desk to another location in the room - or both.  A little electronic L.F. room EQ might help a bit too.  I know I'm the guy that had designed and sells them, but do yourself a favor.  Question the speakers last in your analysis and trouble-shooting.  For what it's worth, the bass response is linear +/- 2dB - worst case.  Take a chance and trust me on this.

To sum up...welcome to the world of headaches that true resolution and accuracy bring to the table.  It will take time (and maybe even some $$$), but by the time your done you will have achieved a whole new level of quality in your mixes.  How much time and/or money it takes is directly proportional to your level of obsession.  No matter what though, in the end you will find that you have significantly changed the way you work and probably some of the other tools you work with as well. Your welome!

-Bob

[mixsit]

I did a mix session last night, stayed up a couple of hours after the guys left just trying out things, eq, ambience.. and it's sinking in. Every time I've settled down with these speakers it's like a new lesson. The differences that are reviled, the ease of hearing exactly what's going on, is amazing. My software tools, all are opening up in new ways. What else can I say? If it just keeps getting better..
I'm psyched about this guys.

On top of all that, there's the problems that true 30Hz extension produces. You've had room modes all along - we all do. You just never noticed their effects before to the degree you are now. Before you're done, you may end up either treating the heck out of your room or moving your entire desk to another location in the room - or both. A little electronic L.F. room EQ might help a bit too. I know I'm the guy that had designed and sells them, but do yourself a favor. Question the speakers last in your analysis and trouble-shooting. For what it's worth, the bass response is linear +/- 2dB - worst case. Take a chance and trust me on this.  

Roger that. The more I hear, the more I see I'm in good hands.
I am partially there on room treatment (early reflection control except for overhead and some bass trapping is in.) Even though I can still get different levels at various spots in the room -nodes still evident- it's very even overall, very apparent that this is the result of the source.

To sum up...welcome to the world of headaches that true resolution and accuracy bring to the table. It will take time (and maybe even some $$$), but by the time your done you will have achieved a whole new level of quality in your mixes. How much time and/or money it takes is directly proportional to your level of obsession. No matter what though, in the end you will find that you have significantly changed the way you work and probably some of the other tools you work with as well. Your welome!  

This has already begun, and I'm looking forward to it -actually I'm eager.
 

[Aether Audio]

Wayne,

Thanks for all the feedback.  I'm honored that you took my advice and started really looking into other possible causes of the anomolies you are experienceing.  After you've had sufficient time to evaluate everything more fully, would you mind commenting back as to whether or not you believe the Continuums qualify as true "reference" quality monitors?  I'm talking in the strictest professional definitioon of the word here.  Not the overly used audiophile versions of the definition that are taken to mean "really good" or whatever else these days.

Then, I'm going to ask you to try and change hats (I know it's hard) and to the best of your ability, pretend you're an audiophile.  Turn off the analyzing side and just comment on the "experience" of listening - purely subjective.  

On good source material, are the speakers "musical"?  Pleasant to listen to for long periods of time without fatigue?  Is the midrnge clean and realisitc?  Are they lacking in "air" or "detail"?  Do they provide good soundstage and imaging?  Do they fill the room evenly?  Is the sweat spot wide or narrow? Dynamics good?

I know, I'm driving you nuts.  And I also know I'm asking you to contribute your valuable time to do this.  If you do have the time and care to follow up here, just share whatever you have a mind to.  As you know, AC is about all the marketing we have and your comments are truly appreciated.  Thanks so much for all your efforts and if there's anything I can do to help, all you have to do is ask.  Thanks again, good luck and...

Take care,
-Bob

[mixsit]

I shall and I will be honored to. I am slightly sorry that my reservations' seem to have been perceived as being stronger than I intended.
The up shot is that it has taken me this amount of time to arrive here. But in total, everything -and I mean everything- has accumulated to a complete re-ordering on my perception. I don't want to be going off and start gushing or whatever so I will try to keep an even head about this. But I have no doubts now and will say so when and wherever it is appropriate. Actually I can hardly wait to do so, a clue (on the pro side at least) to cool your heals, knowing there is a world of people out there that have tons more of real experience than I.
The coming out' has begun though BTW.
http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=7835
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=190044

I should also mention that none of this is getting by my wife/best friend/and bass playing buddy. We're both basically having the same reaction. No way can we go back.
It will take some more time; to get past all the discoveries' stage (I'm still going through CD's, mixes, getting past 'amazing', some set up and room work to do (positioning hasn't even been fleshed out yet, questions about 'golden rule to follow, etc.
 
Wayne