[porterr]

Interested in both of these amps to push Tyler Reference Monitors.  Anyone heard both the Stratos and the HCA2 and can compare and contrast?  My front end is a Wadia 23.  Thanks.  RP

[Ernest]

I've heard them both.  Lived with both for about 3 weeks, though at different times.  Personally (no offense Klaus - I love you and your company) I prefer the HCA-2.  It is more expensive however, and I can't say how it would compare to Klaus' other amps.  In my mind they are not that far apart sonically, but the the HCA-2 has a wonderful mixture of tube and solid-state qualities.  It has a tube-like midrange with solid-state-like bass control.  If I couldn't have my eAR amps then I would have a HCA-2.  It had a magic about it when I first got it.  But then the eAR 2 crushed it and I learned what real magic was.

As always, these are my impressions and yours may be completely different.

[Jay S]

A friend just got the Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature Speakers (monitors + bass modules!) this week and we plan to try my eAR Two with them in the not too distant future....    

I really hope that I don't like the sound as I simply do not have space for the bass modules in my living room!!!!    

[klaus@odyssey]

Hey Ernest,  no offense taken.  I know that you're a digital guy through and through,  and as far as the Ear is concerned,  and "crushing" everything else,  well,  I'm reminded of last years Marblefest,  where about 1/2  ( 5 out of 10-12 ???)  preferred a 5 days old !!!  Dual Mono over the Ear 2 at much less than half the cost.  No matter what,  the EAR  is still digital,  but having said that,  it's the best digital I've ever heard. Still digital,  but the best. Makes me wonder,  because the digital amps are so absolutely dirtcheap to produce,  maybe I should get into that market too,  as there seems to be as much a die-hard following here as there is with tubes.  Speaking of which,  in my opinion,  and my taste and experience,  if I want to get even more "magic" than in the Odyssey,  I'd go with the higher Sl  gear or with the right speakers and system,  probably SET.  That's where I'd put the word "magic",  but that's me.

Anyway,  I really don't want to get into the EAR  and Peter thing here on my forum,  and I wish that you would take that somewhere else,  as I'm proud of the fact that we keep this Odyssey forum clean.  And that also means decency, and thus the absence of Peter's well documented ramblings.  Of course,  over the past years I've dealt with realatively few "customers from hell" or real a..holes,  only about 5-6, fortunatley,  but I'm crious as to whether or not I'll be hearing from one hear.(no,  not you Ernest,  of course not.  We're cool)

Anyway,  as to the PS Audio,  well,  listen to yourself if you'll have a chance.  As with any component,  always look at the three major issues at hand,  1.  room interaction with the system as such,  2. synergy, synergy, synergy.  There's no silver bullet or magic wand that makes any component universally perfect in each and every system.  As always,  synergy rules !!!,  and 3.  Personal taste.  Try to get into the middle of a p...ing contest of tubes vs. digital guys.  Done that, been there, not interested in doing it again.  Man,  some people need a life.

Anyway,  with the personal taste it's obviously the subjective importance on certain musical areas that you can brand as "magical".  Sound staging ??  Smoothness and natural top end ???  Bass foundation ??  Clarity and detail ???  Overwhelming musical texture in the midrange ???   What's the importance to you??? What's the music ?? Rock,  metal,  blues, classical, single acoustical ???  All this makes a huge difference.
Ever heard the imposing Infinity references or Genesis ref.,  all 4 tower pieces ???  Unbelievable big orchestral definition.  Unbelievable with a wide variety of amps.  First heard a pair of Infinity 4's (or 5's ??)  at TAS's Harry Pearson's house with a couple of different amps, Krell and Rowland's.  Same with the big Genesis towers.  Unfreaking real orchestral and weight.  BUT,  try to play Rock or metal,  and a $ 300. Cerwin Vega will be more satisfying.  What a dog.

To get back to the issue with PS,  try it and decide for yourself.  I'll definitely encourage it if I think that your system is a good match with the Stratos amps.  If not,  then what's the point?  Last month  I have heard the Stratos DM and the PS side by side one time here in Indiana,  with 2 speakers,  Maggie 1.6's  and SF Extremas.  Nice combination (and another 3 different,  VERY  interesting amps about which I won't get into here).  Anyway,  important also to note that the DM  was a past mid 2002  model,  when we did serious changes to the amps.  (Ernest's Stratos that he listened to,  which belongs to Ron G.  is a bit older model).  Nevermind my   own impression and taste.  Of course I'm partial,  duh !!!  BUT nevertheless,  it still sounded digital, which, again,  in some systems and for some tastes can be the x-factor.

In the past year or so I know of about half a dozen + people who've tried teh 2 side by side.  How do I know,  well,  for one, I received 2 amps back because these 2 guys liked the PS better.  However,  I also know of at least 4 people who discussed the compo with me and who  preferred the Stratos x2,  1 x DM,  and 1 x monos,  I think.  

Trying to be as objective as I can,  and also feeding from the feedback of these customers,  the basicdifferences are that the digital amp simply is cleaner and has more detail and clarity.  However,  the Stratos in turn has better sound staging speaker disappearence and better bass foundation.  I also think that the cable matching becomes increasingly important with digital amps.  You can probably much more dial in a better or sh...tier overall tonality with digital amps than with other designs.  But like I said,  if you like them,  and you have the right components,  then by all means it should be killer.

Just my thoughts,  and like I said,  please don't get into s spin contest with the EAR amps on our forum here.  Thanks.
On the other hand,  hmmmm,  an ICE powered digital  Odyssey amp for a fraction of that of the over priced units ???  Food for thought.


Late,

Klaus

[Jay S]

Trying to be as objective as I can,  and also feeding from the feedback of these customers,  the basicdifferences are that the digital amp simply is cleaner and has more detail and clarity.  However,  the Stratos in turn has better sound staging speaker disappearence and better bass foundation.  I also think that the cable matching becomes increasingly important with digital amps.  You can probably much more dial in a better or sh...tier overall tonality with digital amps than with other designs.  But like I said,  if you like them,  and you have the right components,  then by all means it should be killer.

Just my thoughts,  and like I said,  please don't get into s spin contest with the EAR amps on our forum here.  Thanks.
On the other hand,  hmmmm,  an ICE powered digital  Odyssey amp for a fraction of that of the over priced units ???  Food for thought.

Klaus,

I think you would be an ideal person to explore the potential of digital amps since you have so much experience with great sounding analog amps (and have obviously high standards).  You have a lot of things on your plate (and you've done an incredible job broadening Odyssey's product line in the last year).  But, since digital amps are still in their infancy, now would be a great time to get in and test the waters as it may be easier to make a splash than when everyone is in the market place.  

Personally, I don't want to get into the whole thing of digital vs analog vs tube.  I've got one of each.  I do wish I had gotten a chance to try a Stratos - I had almost bought it twice but got intrigued by first the Le Amp then the eAR before I could pull the trigger.  

Best regards,

- Jay

[klaus@odyssey]

Hi Jay,

You're absolutely right here.  It's infancy and thus I can "forgive" some of the finger prints of digital technology.  And yes,  I think that there will be improvements in the future as well.  The biggest problem technogically and design wise is the switching power supply.  then again,  there are brilliant people out there and it certainly can be done.

Now,  no problem here with your choice.  As long as you're happy with your system,  that's the main thing with our hobby / or livelihood.  Or at least it should be.

As you know,  I've been on record many times recommending competitor's products,  based on system information.  the last thing that I want to be called is a spin meister or greedy and too biased person.  That's not me.  If you like your system and considered a Stratos but bought some other amps,  and your happy with it,  then that should be the goal.  Good for you.  Would I have liked making the sale ???  Of course.  then again,  we're busy as always and not desperate where we have to go into the survival mode.  

I find it silly and ridiculous when somebody comes along,  and in absolute terms puts down the Stratos amp because product XYZ  just blows it away.  Yes,  we loose customers to digital amps,  other ss amps,  tubes or hybrids every singl eweek.  So what ???   For those people it's a hobby in the first place.  A hobby that makes you want to change and experience.  We're also gaining from the same exact phenomenon in that many customers come from other amps and get the Stratos.  And yes,  you have to deal with some idiotic ownership pride that sometimes is way over the top.  It's an audio product,  for %^$% sake.  So,  if somebody states that the product xyz works better than the Stratos for him,  then cool.  that's how the hobby should be.  Then again,  we have more than twice the amount of customers who come back for seconds than the amount of customers who migrate from the Stratos.  For me,  if you like the product xzy better,  that's cool, but don't freaking try to tell me that my products are junk,  especially in the price points that we're able to offer the products.  Bang for the buck,  that's where my pride is,  and that's where I'll ramble on more below.  Apples and apples,  and oranges and oranges,  please.

  Again,  look at the points I've made above.  Synergy, personal taste,  and relativity.  All things being equal,  a more expensive product X should overall be a better product than less expensive products y and Z.  the problem that we have here with the high end hobby is that most (95 % +) of our statements, impressions,  etc.  are personal and subjective.  Getting into an engineering pi..ing context over numbers means diddley,  and most people here should be experienced enough to understand that  Unlike,  let's say the car market,  which for us audio nuts is the analogy nirwana (and maybe whoooore land, right Marbles ???hehehe),  the vast majority don't have a clue as to  what is a fair pricing and what's a rip off.  Just because a product in one segment is less $$$ than others doesn't mean that you're not overpaying 500 %.  Look at the eternal discussion about cable values.

With cars,  we know what to expect for20 k or 30 k,  and none of us would buy a small pick up 4 banger for $ 50 k, right ?    The argument that the state of the art and some % gains in performance are worth tons of $  is only valid if yuo have money to burn and if you have no perception whatsoever about the diminishing returns on your investment in terms of performance gain, which is your subjective opinion on the gain in the first place.  The next person might think that the extra money you spent is actually a step back in the system's performance.  Who didn't make his costly mistake ???

What pisses me off are overpriced products.  Products that are 2-3 times more $$$  than it should be.  If people buy them,  cool.  Good for the manufacturer, and I feel sorry for the buyer, regardless how much he likes them.  Extreme example here:  $ 5k  power cords that cost $ 100.  in parts.  A sucker born every minute.  Should we feel sorry for the buyer?  Hehehe,  not if you have 5k for cords.   Same can be said for amps.  4-10 K for amps that only cost less than $ 500.  in parts ????  Where's the justification for the often cited "design investment return"  when you're charging that much more %.   ???  Again,  if you have the money to burn,  and if you like the product that much,  then more power to you.  Most people who have an idea that they've overspent also become the biggest spin meisters of these products.  After all,  nothing worse than buyers remorse,  even if you love the product.

Over priced products piss me off.  So,  in this regard and looking at the overall very cheap to manufacture digital designs and their price tags,  I believe that not only the technology,  but also the price / product relation will improve in the future as well.  You can see the first steps with Japanese mass products.  Give the designers a bit more free hand and market a bit more upscale models,  and soon these companies will have some serious winners on their hand for the price point.

Man,  it's 4 am, I'm tired,  and I'm rambling on here.  The original point,  oh yes.  Jay,  thanks for the vine,  and the kind words.  We'll see.  If I won't do it,  somebody else will put a good fairly priced product on the market,  and the customers who'll buy and like it will be richer for it.  The digital domain is not a do or die.  that's nonsense, and there'll be enough room for any sensible manufacturer of different design technologies.

My hope is that the do or die will more apply to honest, decent and service friendly and service oriented companies.  Track record,  and a few satisfied customers a track record doesn't make.  Takes time and work,  and sometimes it's a bitch.  But it's also the most important issue here,  regardless whether you make amps,  speakers, or CD players.

Good night,

Klaus

[Jay S]

Thanks, Klaus.  

Its this passion for honest, bang for the buck products that has always made me come back to consider Odyssey products whenever I got itchy for a change/upgrade.  We'll see what the future holds.

And, by the way, I think it is somewhat of a compliment that the Stratos is used as a benchmark for so many comparisons!

[Eduardo AAVM]

Thank Klaus it is always nice when you write this way... Instructive and passionate...

[Ernest]

Sorry, Klaus, I had no intention of starting an eAR vs. Stratos thing.  There is room enough in this world for all of our audio tastes.  We just need to respect each other enough to let each other have differing opinions.

I'd like to strongly agree with what Klaus said about synergy.  I've had equipment that sounded bad in my system sound good in another system, and vice versa.  There really is no substitute for trying out a piece of equipment in one's own system.  That's how I found what I prefer and I am very happy.  But what makes me happy might not make you happy.

I would also love to have a great SET based system.  I had a pair of very good SET monoblocks but I never got speakers that properly matched them.  I couldn't afford to hold onto them so I had to sell them.  Some day though I would like to give the SET world another try.  But I really do love my current equipment and don't plan to change it anytime soon.  I must admit though that I can't get that Symphonic Line preamp that Klaus played for me at the MAF show out of my head.  If I wasn't completely broke from all of the audio gear I bought in the past year, I would definitely want to give it a try.

[BikeWNC]

Ernest,

Having lived with the Symphonic Line Der Erleuchtung preamp for some time in my system, I can vouch for just how special it really is.  It has a completely natural and transparent presentation.  Very seductive.  I've lost a lot of sleep since it arrived because I just can't turn it off.  Enough said.

Andy