Power dillema

Jason Nugent · « **on:** 9 Feb 2006, 11:45 pm »

Well, tomorrow my electrician is coming to quote on running some dedicated circuits to my room. However, I'm still unsure as to what's the best course of action for me. James, you and I have had a few dicussions via email regarding Torus units and my room, but if I may summarize here, just so others can perhaps offer their own input.

Here's the deal. I'm going to have a rack in the room about half way along the side wall. At the front of the room, my 4B SST is going to sit on a Sound Anchors stand to drive my L and R speakers. The 9B SST will do surround duties and sit in the rack.

The rack also has my other components (my SP2, a video scaler, DVD player, etc), and the ceiling has an outlet for the projector.

I'd like to be able to protect the whole room. Originally, I thought a 5400 VA NEMA unit at my entrance panel was my best option. I'd bring three 15A circuits into the room - one for the 4B, one for the 9B, and one for the other rack components and projector. However, James made a comment about having the power unit near the amps to minimize impedance issues, which makes a lot of sense.

That means, of course, that I'd have to go with a rack unit.. That's cool, until I try to figure out how to plug the 4B into it, with a relatively short power cord. It also makes protecting the projector impossible. I wouldn't want to protect the rack and the amps, only to have the projector get a surge and send something back along the video line to the scaler.

I mean, I suppose I could put a 15A NEMA unit at the entrance panel for the rack and the projector circuit, and two 15A rack units for the amps, but that seems WAY excessive. (not to mention expensive) Do I even need this much protection? How much current do I really need to provide to everything? Even if I went with a seperate unit for each amp, there's the issue of putting the unit near the 4B on its isolated stand near the front of the room.

I'm paranoid about all of this because my house had a power surge back in September that cooked 90% of the appliances in my home. We had a tree fall against our power line. 240V into the house for 4 hours. Bummer.

Any and all suggestions and comments are welcome.

James Tanner · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 01:14 pm »

Hi Jason

I will get back to you later today.

james

woodsyi · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 01:39 pm »

Jason,

Call Donna at Zero Surge Inc. http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/panel.html to get a price on their PM20-240 unit. It's a twin 20 amp surge protector panel unit which I would think should be enough for your need. I think it was Chairguy or someone who mentioned that these guys are the OEM for Brickwall and sell theirs cheaper. I am getting one too.

James Tanner · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 01:47 pm »

HI Jason,

Zerosurge is an excellent (20 amp maximum) surge protection unit. It is not a conditioner.
It does not provide the same benifits as a powerline conditioner.

The Torus uses Zerosurge technology as well as Power Conditioning up to 100 amps.

james

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 01:55 pm »

I'm going to call ZeroSurge just to see what they offer. i wonder if I should run three dedicated 15A circuits into the room, where I need the plugs, and leave my options open for now then? I could always run the three 15A circuits into a Torus NEMA box later on, or just put rack mounted units near the equipment. I'll make sure I run 10 gauge wire to each plug, in case I have to upgrade the circuits to 20 or 40A or something.

Conditioning would be nice, but surge protection is the big priority at the moment.

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 04:22 pm »

Okay, so a question for James

would two 20 amp circuits be enough for the two amplifiers, and the rest of the equipment? Can I run the 4B + other stuff on one circuit, and the 9B on its own circuit? Is that recommended?

The Zero Surge units are pretty inexpensive, and if I run heavy gauge three-wire to each plug, I can always go for a Torus 240V unit later on, or upgrade to a Torus 5400 VA NEMA unit at the entrance panel when they become available.

woodsyi · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 04:47 pm »

Jason,

I can't imagine a HT set up that needs more than 40 amps! If you have one, I would be awed but I wouldn't want to be your neighbor.

Mike36 · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 05:28 pm »

How about a powervar power conditioner?

James Tanner · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 06:07 pm »

Quote from: Jason Nugent

Okay, so a question for James

would two 20 amp circuits be enough for the two amplifiers, and the rest of the equipment? Can I run the 4B + other stuff on one circuit, and the 9B on its own circuit? Is that recommended?

The Zero Surge units are pretty inexpensive, and if I run heavy gauge three-wire to each plug, I can always go for a Torus 240V unit later on, or upgrade to a Torus 5400 VA NEMA unit at the entrance panel when they become available.

Hi Jason,

I think most people will go with the outboard units rather than the NEMA because of the portability and the LOWNOISE/LOW IMPEDANCE/HIGH CURRENT source it provides.

I have all my equipment (DVD/CD, SP2 etc.) in a rack connected to a 20 amp Torus and I have all the rest of my amps - 2- 28B's a 14B and a 9B connected to a 240 volt 60 amp Torus.

The power conditioning is a big improvement in my experience.

I would suggest using 2 - 20 amp units as you say and split the load.

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 06:38 pm »

James,

How about this, for the time being?

I can go with a ZeroSurge 15A NEMA unit for my projector and equipment rack. For $230, it's a no-brainer. For the time being, the dual 20A unit from ZeroSurge could protect each of my amps. It's about $400. After I get a few months of peaceful sleep because I know my gear isn't going to get cooked, I can get two 15A outboard Torus units, or something for the amps. Sound reasonable?

I just don't want to hold up production on the room. I can always add more protection and power conditioning later on. The $600 isn't a huge investment, and I can always just move those units to some other sensitive circuit in my house later on.

James Tanner · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 06:39 pm »

Hi All,

Remember that the maximum current ratings on the 120 Volt power amps are at full power into low impedances under transient conditions.

So lets say we had a pair of 7B's and a 9B in our surround system into 4 ohm loudspeakers. The 9B would draw a max of 19 amps and the 7B would draw a max of 16 amps each. So the total potential would be a maximum of 51 amps.

In the real world in a home theater system you rarely would ever approach this condition. Therefore I think setting up the system for about 1/2 of the maximum requirement makes good sense. 25 amps would mean using two Torus 15 amp units spit between the gear.

james

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 06:42 pm »

oh, by the way, the fact that you've got two 28B amps, a 9B, and a 14B driving your gear makes me feel very inadequate.

James Tanner · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 06:44 pm »

Quote from: Jason Nugent

James,

How about this, for the time being?

I can go with a ZeroSurge 15A NEMA unit for my projector and equipment rack. For $230, it's a no-brainer. For the time being, the dual 20A unit from ZeroSurge could protect each of my amps. It's about $400. After I get a few months of peaceful sleep because I know my gear isn't going to get cooked, I can get two 15A outboard Torus units, or something for the amps. Sound reasonable?

I just don't want to hold up production on the room. I can alwa ...

Sounds like a good plan.

james

Mike36 · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 07:18 pm »

I bought a powervar thinking it would do the trick but it is only 12amps.
Quite a heavy duty build at 42lbs.
I assume my 4b amps would need 15 amps each?

Thanks.

James Tanner · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 08:32 pm »

HI Mike,

Yes the 4B could draw up to 16 amps.

james

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Feb 2006, 07:29 pm »

Just a follow up to this. Since my two amps will each be on their own circuit, and my SP2 will be on another circuit with the rest of the equipment, what do I need to do to make sure that I don't get ground loop hum in the equipment? This just ocurred to me. I know I can put the two amplifier circuits on the same phase in the entrance panel, but I'm worried that the SP2 will be the cause of some issues here.

James Tanner · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Feb 2006, 08:58 pm »

Hi Jason,

If you run XLR Balanced Lines it should not be an issue.

james

Jason Nugent · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Feb 2006, 09:05 pm »

Hey James,

That was the plan, yeap, at least for the 5 outputs that I can use it with. My sub, unfortunately, does not have an XLR input. I'll also have to use the RCA connection for the lone surround speaker in my 6.1 configuration.

I guess I was more concerned with running a signal from the SP2 on one circuit to the amps on the other. If the two circuits were at different ground potentials (let's say there was a problem with my house's ground), there's the potential for problems. I'm probably worrying about nothing. I know the Bryston amplifiers have a special mechanism that eliminates the need for ground lift switches that are usually used to fight this sort of contamination.

thanks again.

Jason

eddiem67 · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Feb 2006, 10:22 pm »

Panamax make an in wall outlet that allows you to run an amp is in front back to your rack and then plug into your power conditioner. The run should stay below 50ft.